LT1 Just started gushing oil from front center of engine, WHY?

My 94 Cadillac Fleetwood Hearse just started puking out oil like crazy today. Its obviously a LT1 and has 60,000 miles on it and hasn't had much of anything touched yet as far as ignition, WP, etc.... I started the car this morning and let it idle and there isn't a drop of oil to be found where it idled for 10 minutes. I then drove it 20 miles to a funeral and I never noticed any stinky oil or anything, but it was parked outside, so it could of started.....I then drive it 20 miles home and notice smoke in my garage after I shut it off. It was faint but I could smell it. I decided to look under the car and there was a puddle of oil 6 inches in diameter on the floor after idling maybe 20-30 seconds. I looked under the hood and there is no visible signs of oil, so I looked underneath. I saw the whole center front area of the engine covered in fresh dripping oil. I'm not exactly sure where its coming from, but it sure looks like its from the timing chain area. I had a suit on, so please be kind as I didn't get to really look close at it. I'm just wondering what areas to really focus on when I put it up on ramps tomorrow? Timing chain cover area, Opti? Any suggestions what to help me kinda narrow this down would be helpful and then I will see what I think tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for the ideas!   

Dumb question.... are you SURE it is engine oil? There are other things under there as well... power steering comes to mind, as does transmission lines.

I KNOW that these are not directly on the timing cover, but they are oil.

Oil cooler lines? (if it has an oil cooler)

Tom

Its engine oil, and its definitely dripping from front center of engine. I thought the trans cooler lines right away but they are not the culprit. The cooler up front is dry, so not that either.

Its dripping from engine block up front and Its just a matter of locating the source tomorrow.

Thank you for all the ideas so far, I feel kinda dumb not having more info, but I wasn't crawling under there in my dress clothes. I'll try to clean the oil off tomorrow and see where it appears to be coming from after I clean up the majority of the mess!

My first guess would be the oil cooler lines. Then the camshaft seal behind the opti . .(all Spark). . .spark

Just a quick update. I put it up on ramps and sprayed the engine all down in Brakekleen and then wiped it down the best I could. I started it up and let it run for a few minutes and NO LEAK! So, whatever is leaking is temperature sensitive........We got 4 inches of snow and I didn't want to take the car out for a drive in this sloppy mess. I'll try to tomorrow and look again.

"On ramps" tips the engine back -- ie: the oil has now run to the rear of the pan somewhat. That may mean it's a splash rather than pressurized source. How high up the engine was the oil? It probably won't be much higher than the leak. So, if it's right to the top of the timing cover, then waterpump seal. Halfway down, opti drive seal. Bottom, crankshaft seal. Or the oil pan/timing cover seal. Fortunately, all 4 come in the timing cover seal kit. Just change them all and be done with it.  

The oil pan went on my 94 hearse,40000 miles,it was fixed on the car but will need to be replaced.

Glad you didn't have any motor damage.

buickwagon wrote:

"On ramps" tips the engine back -- ie: the oil has now run to the rear of the pan somewhat. That may mean it's a splash rather than pressurized source. How high up the engine was the oil? It probably won't be much higher than the leak. So, if it's right to the top of the timing cover, then waterpump seal. Halfway down, opti drive seal. Bottom, crankshaft seal. Or the oil pan/timing cover seal. Fortunately, all 4 come in the timing cover seal kit. Just change them all and be done with it.  

I know the ramps aren't the best, but I don't have a lift and its more practical than putting it up on 4 stands and I'm always afraid to run them up on stands. I did use the ramps and i looked for how high up the oil came from, and Its not up as high as the WP, but If I get it opened up, theres a new WP and seals going in the old girl. It appears to be much more in the area of the opti, but heres the rear issue I had.....The engine sits for months sometimes, so its a leaky LT1. It weeps a little oil from many locations, so when I looked, EVERYTHING looked fresh.    I cleaned it up the best I could with brakekleen, so hopefully tomorrow I can get it out on the road and get it hot and keep a close eye on it and then get back under there and pin point it.

I'm planning on having my neighbor do the repairs as he has a lift and does most of our bigger jobs. I'm just trying to think out loud and start pre-planning a parts list to have on hand for him when he starts on it next week. I know I'm missing things, so by all means feel free to add to my parts list. I'm also looking to do a realistic tune-up on the engine because I'm pretty sure its got the original spark plugs, wires, etc in it. Water Pump, seals (do they come with a new pump, or no?), spark plugs, plug wires, felpro gasket set (any specific Felpro part number I need), _______________.

I'm really hoping to not have to get into the opti, but I'm not sure how realistic that is.

With the gasket kit, whats all included, and is there any extra seals or gaskets I should have on hand?

Sorry for all the questions, and THANKS for all the input guys!

check 2 c if the pcv is working,..
I,d look at the intake manifold front rail ,.. that leak will be rpm dependent,. check to see if the intake bolts are still tight,.

Find the source of the leak before you change gaskets on anything,.  this is a 60,000 mile engine, thats noted for its reliability,.

I seriously doubt timing chain cover/front seal oil pan gaskets,. and replacing them just because makes as much sense as putting summer air in the tires,. 

Leave the opti alone,..if the vents are working well they are trouble free,..

Spark plugs are a good idea,. and upgrade the coil,..wet the wires down while its running,. if it doesn't misfire keep the wires,.

do what you want,.. you're gonna anyway,.

phantom 309 wrote:

check 2 c if the pcv is working,..
I,d look at the intake manifold front rail ,.. that leak will be rpm dependent,. check to see if the intake bolts are still tight,.

Find the source of the leak before you change gaskets on anything,.  this is a 60,000 mile engine, thats noted for its reliability,.

I seriously doubt timing chain cover/front seal oil pan gaskets,. and replacing them just because makes as much sense as putting summer air in the tires,. 

Leave the opti alone,..if the vents are working well they are trouble free,..

Spark plugs are a good idea,. and upgrade the coil,..wet the wires down while its running,. if it doesn't misfire keep the wires,.

do what you want,..  you're gonna anyway,.

Thanks for the ideas, I'll look into the intake manifold, but there was no oil up that high when I looked today. I could of missed it, but it seemed dry even at the height of the water pump.

Use some flour.

A light dusting of flour will stick to the residual oil film, and wash away from the leak, leaving a pretty clear trail from the leak. It might be a bit tricky to coat up behind the opti/waterpump though. Maybe blow some in there with a straw? You will probably also need an inspection mirror and flashlight.

Cool, If I end up with a loaf of bread, I'll be a true baker!

If you end up with a loaf of bread, I'll be amazed.

Just curious if anyone else has had access to the engine and possibly overfilled the crankcase?  

Flasheroo wrote:

Just curious if anyone else has had access to the engine and possibly overfilled the crankcase?  

one of the passengers

Ah, there you go: it's not oil, it's ectoplasm!   

I had almost the EXACT same issue. Seal for the opti on the timing cover had separated due to age. Sometimes it would seal up and not really leak. Other times it would spew 3 quarts on my 30 mile drive home. I sat under it for hours looking for a leak and couldn't find one.

It would be difficult to check this for a leak unless you got the WP/opti off.

No I'm about the only person to do maintenance on the car.

Deadmanonduty wrote:

No I'm about the only person to do maintenance on the car.

Well in that case, it almost certainly has to be the work of a former passenger. According to Tobins' Spirit Guide, black ectoplasm is negatively charged and should be neutralized prior to handling, so you should probably check the residue out with a PKE meter before proceeding further.

  

I'll start asking them from now on and see if they messed with the LT1!

Deadmanonduty wrote:

I'll start asking them from now on and see if they messed with the LT1!  

Who ya gonna call,.....?

phantom 309 wrote:

Who ya gonna call,.....?

Good question now that Dr. Spengler has left the building.

Crank seal is the leak. Its weird because it leaks like crazy and then it stops, and then it weeps. It started pouring out oil, so it was fairly easy to locate once it started leaking again!
Thanks again guys!

Oil cooler lines. Exact same thing happened to me. Dumped 4 quarts in a matter of minutes.

Deadmanonduty wrote:

Crank seal is the leak. Its weird because it leaks like crazy and then it stops, and then it weeps.  It started pouring out oil, so it was fairly easy to locate once it started leaking again!
Thanks again guys!  

If it's intermittent, I wonder if it could be a crankcase pressure problem. Check to make sure it's not overfull or foaming. Check the PCV valve for proper operation.

buickwagon wrote:

Deadmanonduty wrote:

Crank seal is the leak. Its weird because it leaks like crazy and then it stops, and then it weeps.  It started pouring out oil, so it was fairly easy to locate once it started leaking again!
Thanks again guys!  

If it's intermittent, I wonder if it could be a crankcase pressure problem. Check to make sure it's not overfull or foaming. Check the PCV valve for proper operation.

phantom 309 wrote:

check 2 c if the pcv is working,..

Ahem,....

front crank seals don't just start gushing,..you have other issues,.

Oil level was right where it belonged minus the oil it leaked out, so I'm confident it wasn't overfilled. If it was overfilled, it wasn't by very much.

So, Check PCV Valve, WILL DO! Thank you again!

If it matters, this car often sits for a full month, sometimes 2 months without being driven depending on our work schedule, so I'm curious if the sitting time would cause the crank seal to dry out or anything funny? Just throwing it out there.....

Deadmanonduty wrote:

If it matters, this car often sits for a full month, sometimes 2 months without being driven depending on our work schedule, so I'm curious if the sitting time would cause the crank seal to dry out or anything funny?  Just throwing it out there.....

No,..

My mechanic that replaced the seal said it was pretty trashed for whatever reason. Its not leaking now, and he checked PCV and it was ok. I'm hoping its fixed, but time will tell!

Deadmanonduty wrote:

My mechanic that replaced the seal said it was pretty trashed for whatever reason.  Its not leaking now, and he checked PCV and it was ok.  I'm hoping its fixed, but time will tell!  

How interesting,..trashed eh? a seal on a polished spinning shaft,.. trashed,..

I hear new stuff everyday,...

Trashed in terms of a perfect seal, yes.

Interesting to me, because in my 40+ years of being around engines in various automotive marine and industrial settings,.I have yet to see oil GUSH,. from a front seal,. that was a direct cause of the seals' failure. I have seen engine failures that caused a seal to be damaged,. have seen parts come loose and damage seals,. but this is the first time i,ve ever heard of a seal that is has failed intermittently.
i.e it leaks, it doesn't leak, it leaks ,.it doesn't leak,.

I think there is possibly another issue that has't been diagnosed yet.

Best of luck and i hope it is fixed.

phantom 309 wrote:

Interesting to me, because in my 40+ years of being around engines in various automotive marine and industrial settings,.I have yet to see oil GUSH,. from a front seal,. that was a direct cause of the seals' failure. I have seen engine failures that caused a seal to be damaged,. have seen parts come loose and damage seals,. but this is the first time i,ve ever heard of a seal that is has failed intermittently.
i.e it leaks, it doesn't leak, it leaks ,.it doesn't leak,.

I think there is possibly another issue that has't been diagnosed yet.

Best of luck and i hope it is fixed.

I will keep a close eye on it, and I appreciate all your input. I love forums for this very reason.......I'm not an expert by any means, so I value your suggestions!
Thanks