VATS Question...

Ok, so I put another column in the Roadmaster. I had the key that came with that column (was chipped) and I know that key worked fine.

BUT after installing it in my RMW, no go on starting. So I would need to get a new key made with a chip matching my original RMW's key...right?

These chips cant be popped out of the key and swapped around can they?

Thanks!!

Key needs to match the module in the car I believe.

Nope, can't swap chips.

reprogram the ecm,. turn off vats,.
go under the dash wire the starter around the vats box,.big purple wire if i remember,.

Nick

Chris have you decided yet whats going to be the color of the sedan nosed wagon?
Thanks
Jim Gordon

Measure resistance of old key. Order new blank key with correct resistance off ebay. Cut new key to match old key.

jayoldschool wrote:

Measure resistance of old key. Order new blank key with correct resistance off ebay. Cut new key to match old key.

OR, measure the resistance of the old key, go to Radio Shack and buy a resitor with that value. Then you splice it in under the dash by the module. Real easy, I have the information if you want it. You could then use keys without the little chip. Just have a plain key cut for the new column. I did it, works great.

Tom C.

silverfox103 wrote:

OR, measure the resistance of the old key, go to Radio Shack and buy a resitor with that value. Then you splice it in under the dash by the module. Real easy, I have the information if you want it. You could then use keys without the little chip. Just have a plain key cut for the new column. I did it, works great.

Tom C.

+1
I've done it on my 94 RMW and my Mom's 96 Camaro, works great

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=227294&highlight=vats+bypass


I spent a dollar on 5 resistors and Radio shack.

You may depending on the resistance have to combine two or three resistors in parallel to get the right resistance. you will have to google to get the values you need to combine to make that happen (had to do on my Mom's car)

Hey Tom I see you have the air bag disconnected.By doing this is the airbag completely
disabled or can it still discharge for no obvious reason?
Thank You
Jim Gordon

That isn't his picture.

I got my last VATS key from ebay for 5 bucks and had it cut for free.

This is a good place to get keys for cheap as well.

http://www.clksupplies.com/shop/index.php?cPath=24_26_66

Thats a great price for vat keys.I ordered mine online but paid a little more money for them.
My local Tru Value cut them for a buck each.They had a electronic key reader that they
would just slide the key across and a number showed on the readout.
Jim Gordon

Nice info thread guys!

I reprogrammed mine out entirely via the Prominator custom chip set that's running my Corevtte/Camaro ECM. Doesn't matter if the key has a resistor or not, it gets ignored.
It was an intentional decision as part of what I've had to do to get Shammoo's brain swapped over to the TPI system.

The resistor is a hell of a lot cheaper way for anyone with a stock system to solve the problem.
I doubt it would run much more than a buck at Radio Shack, and a little time upside down under the dash.

Brokecello,

You could also consider having the the tumbler from the old column inserted, (never tried it myself )or having a locksmith re- pin the new one, thereby using the old key. A resistor still sounds easier.

I went to the locksmith and bought a new key with a chip that matched the old one. It was about $25. That was about half the price at the dealer.

These days I think I'd just get the resistors.

Yeah, when I got mine cut at the locksmith they asked it I got it off eBay. I said yes and she asked how much it was. I told her it was 5 bucks and asked what they sell theirs for, $25 was the response. They are $32 from the dealer here.

my problem on both cars was thats the VATS was failing and preventing starting of the car. Tried several keys that all fell in the proper range so I know it was not the keys.

Since I've put the resistors in I have not had the issue occur again in either vehicle.

The main problem I have found is in the key cylinders themselves. I swapped one out and it lasted a couple of months before the wires broke. Thankfully it died while the vehicle was running so I never had any start problems. I put another new one in when I did the column swap and ran the wires properly. However, if this one fails, the VATS will be removed completely.

The resistor mod eliminates the key cylinder from the system. However, if a module or relay fails. No amount of resistors will help you. That makes the the steps Nick listed the best way to cure VATS issues.

Ok, thanks for all the awesome help! I went with a new key this time and it was $26.24 on the nose. (found out what chip# I needed)

However, I will take Nick's advise once I reprogram the PCM. I am not really a fan of the VATS/Passkey thing. Seems like one more thing to break as the years roll on.

Oh, and a heads up if you do a new key....let the key sit in the ignition (with it on) for a few mins until the Passkey light goes off. Things have to communicate I'm told.

I was starting to get really ticked when it didn't start right away. Works fine now though. Lol

Very useful info guys.Thank You and sorry about the paintjob questiion for the sedan nosed wagon that
Chris has in storage.
Thanks Again
Jim Gordon

Lol! You are fine Jim, I actually forgot to mention that.
I heard it took a beating last night though...MILaw said they had golfball and larger size hail. Jade was under the carport, but the '96 was not. Gonna look tonight after work. It has a cover on it, but I doubt it would help that much.

my wagon has resister like tom said it works great

Ok. Once again my wagon is dead thanks to a dead Ignition Cylinder.

VATS SUCKS!

Doing the resistor mod tomorrow and saving for a PCM tune.

Hey Chris hope your 96 did OK with the hail storm and all.Guess since we have not heard from you the wagon survived!
Jim Gordon

Bypassing this incredibly s****y system is so simple it hurts. Of course mine uses key 15 which is the highest resistance, lol.

Really wish I had done this 2 key cylinders ago.

94Woody wrote:

Bypassing this incredibly s****y system is so simple it hurts. Of course mine uses key 15 which is the highest resistance, lol.

Really wish I had done this 2 key cylinders ago.

Was yours not starting, or just the light on? My light is on solid, but car starts right up.

I wish we still had Radio Shacks..... I also wonder if the 96 is different, as so many things are on it.

-Michael

On that particular wagon it would start but the light was on. The wires on my replacement ignition cylinder kept breaking. Resistor mod eliminated light and car worked fine.

My current wagon had the light on when I bought it but would start just fine.  This time I said to heck with a resistor. Bought a cable,  downloaded eehack, bypassed the module and programmed it out of the PCM. Works great and I don't have to worry about the module leaving me stranded in the future.

Of course you have OBD2 so I believe tuning it out isnt as cheap as a 94/95.

If the fault occurs while the engine is running, then the system will allow the car to restart UNTIL the codes are reset (eg: battery dies). Then (assuming the fault still exists) the car won't start any more. So if the light is on, do the by-pass ASAP.

If the fault is intermittent, the code will self-reset after 50 consecutive successful ignition cycles.

The most common fault is dirty or worn contacts. If they make a poor connection with the key pellet, then the resistance seems higher than it really is, triggering the security light and preventing engine starting.

BTW: anyone else notice that this is a 7 year old thread?

81X11 wrote:

Was yours not starting, or just the light on?  My light is on solid, but car starts right up.

I wish we still had Radio Shacks.....     I also wonder if the 96 is different, as so many things are on it.

I can't believe you haven't invested in having your pcm tuned.  Use the core service if you have to minimize downtime.  In the tune, delete VATS then remove the TDM, per another post.

buickwagon wrote:

BTW: anyone else notice that this is a 7 year old thread?  

yup[/quote]

jasonlachapelle wrote:

81X11 wrote:

Was yours not starting, or just the light on?  My light is on solid, but car starts right up.

I wish we still had Radio Shacks.....     I also wonder if the 96 is different, as so many things are on it.

I can't believe you haven't invested in having your pcm tuned.  Use the core service if you have to minimize downtime.  In the tune, delete VATS then remove the TDM, per another post.

buickwagon wrote:

BTW: anyone else notice that this is a 7 year old thread?  

yup

[/quote]

I've not found anyone that will still do a tune on my 96 OBDII car here locally in Central Texas. The local tuner shop says it's too old and won't touch it...insists he'll fry the BCM. I really DO want to have it tuned to get the fans on earlier and now to remove the VATS from the system.

Oh and as for the age of the post, if this forum is not for questions and research....what's it for? I was a member here seven years ago, and there were a LOT more of these cars still on the road then. Keeping these alive is what this is about.

-Mike

81X11 wrote:

Oh and as for the age of the post, if this forum is not for questions and research....what's it for?  

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not criticizing. I think it's great when people actually take the time to use the search function on a forum. I just found it amusing that you asked 94Woody a question about a 7 year old post and he answered immediately (well, within a few hours) without batting an eye.

buickwagon wrote:

81X11 wrote:

Oh and as for the age of the post, if this forum is not for questions and research....what's it for?  

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not criticizing. I think it's great when people actually take the time to use the search function on a forum. I just found it amusing that you asked 94Woody a question about a 7 year old post and he answered immediately (well, within a few hours) without batting an eye.

That's why I love this group!

-Mike

I'm even more amazed that I remembered exactly what I did, lol.

81X11 wrote:

I've not found anyone that will still do a tune on my 96 OBDII car here locally in Central Texas.  The local tuner shop says it's too old and won't touch it...insists he'll fry the BCM.    I really DO want to have it tuned to get the fans on earlier and now to remove the VATS from the system.

Use pcmperformance.com

Thanks All! I did email Alex at the tuner place and will hopefully be getting that done soon.

Any other recommendations of things to have him tune? The PCM in that car is stock. Am going to have him turn on the fans at a lower temp and tune out the VATS for sure.

-Mike

the basics: Delete AIR, delete VATS, lower fan turn on temps, remove rear O2 DTC, your preferred tire size.

consider: remove cat temp protection, 2nd gear start
If you're going to do gears, get the tune done now. if not, and you're never gonna do a shift kit you can have him adjust the shift parameters (raise line pressure, adjust shift rpm) and change the rev limiter and shift rpm. The last 2 are really worth it if you change your valvesprings. You can also tell him what you like in terms of torque converter clutch application. Personally I don't like it when the TCC unlocks as soon as you feather the gas.
I don't tow and drive up north so I have ALWAYS requested that 2nd gear start be put back in the tune.

if you have a cold air intake that is straight off the TB (like a raiss) you must tune for that.

Personally I've always gone with a 91 octane tune, but that's just because the pricing scheme for 91 vs 87 in canada, including various rebates, has always been such that the minimal additional cost of ethanol free 91 is offset by the mileage gain. You gain about 7hp with a 91 tune over 87.

OK folks, I heard back from the tuner. The plan is to do the lower-temp fan mod, the VATS delete, and he suggested a premium octane performance tune, firm shifts, speed limiter mod? I'm not sure what the speed limiter mod IS, and also not sure if I want firmer shifts....I don't hot-rod the car, and like the the trans shifts smoothly....

He also asked if I wanted to ever remove the air pump...which I've heard is a good idea to clean up under the hood, so I'm considering having that done.

I've never had the car "tuned". I'm running a K&N intake with a AIM dry filter, and the stock mufflers were replaced years-ago with Flowmasters. Beyond that, it's basically stock, runs great, and is reliable. I want it to remain reliable and to continue running great, but to get the fans on earlier to run cooler. Beyond that, I'm not sure what all to tell him to do....

-Michael

Knowing that you have gone all these years without a tune...and don't hot rod (speed limiter cuts in at 110mph I believe, so obviously you never go past that) I would be wary about having too much punch put in your tune.

I always use the high octane, lower fans speed, firmer shift, no speed limit tunes...but you might not like the firmer feel of the trans and the modified shift points (will wind it out a bit in some cases). Prob freak you out.

Removing the air pump is recommended. I'm surprised it wasn't done already by the dealer (would have a little plug in the line where it goes into the airbox. It was an issue....sucking in water or something?

brokecello wrote:

Knowing that you have gone all these years without a tune...and don't hot rod (speed limiter cuts in at 110mph I believe, so obviously you never go past that) I would be wary about having too much punch put in your tune.  

I always use the high octane, lower fans speed, firmer shift, no speed limit tunes...but you might not like the firmer feel of the trans and the modified shift points (will wind it out a bit in some cases).  Prob freak you out.  

Removing the air pump is recommended. I'm surprised it wasn't done already by the dealer (would have a little plug in the line where it goes into the airbox.  It was an issue....sucking in water or something?

If I have him tune the air pump out, that won't hurt anything if I don't actually REMOVE that pump right away, correct?   I need to see what's involved in taking it off and blocking it off....projects.   He also mentioned tuning out the rear two 02-sensors.  As long as that won't trip the check engine light, I'm fine with that...it IS a 96, so OBDII...

I think I'll have him do the Power Tune, but not modify the shift firmness.   I don't mind running Premium in it, and it would be nice to have a bit more power, but I still want the car to be smooth.   Will remove the speed limiter in case I go to West Texas and want to see what it'll do one day, and do the VATS and fans mods.  

If anyone wants to recommend anything else, I'm planning to send him my PCM this weekend.   Thanks!!

Programming Options are in this link: http://www.pcmperformance.com/programming.html

-Michael

You can leave the pump on. Tuning it out just keeps it from turning on.

94Woody wrote:

You can leave the pump on. Tuning it out just keeps it from turning on.

Good deal thanks!

tuning out the AIR pump prevents the MIL from coming on if it fails. Delete it.
I gave you my recommendations already. You can keep the trans pressure stock (if you want to firm it up do a shift kit later), but I would definitely go with the other modified shift parameters he recommends..

jasonlachapelle wrote:

tuning out the AIR pump prevents the MIL from coming on if it fails.  Delete it.
I gave you my recommendations already.  You can keep the trans pressure stock (if you want to firm it up do a shift kit later), but I would definitely go with the other modified shift parameters he recommends..

What's the MIL Jason?

Malfunction Indicator Lamp

jayoldschool wrote:

Malfunction Indicator Lamp

Check Engine Light? Same thing?

Yes, check engine light.

94Woody wrote:

Yes, check engine light.

Ok, good deal.

OK....I didn't want to cut wires under my dash...so I cheated...and spent too much ($19) for a bypass from Ebay.   On the upside, it plugged right in and light is OUT.   Worth it to me, and if I ever decide to tear into the column and REALLY fix it, I can.   For what it's worth, this is a nice quality item that came with good instructions.  


Still planning to do the PCM tune, but for now, light is out!

-Mike

PCM is in the mail on the way to PCM Performance in New York for a tune. I'm mainly doing this to tune out the VATS and to turn the engine fans on sooner, but he is doing the power tune, turning off the AIR pump, and changing the setting to match the Impala wheels I've been running for 10-years now (ha!). We'll see how it feels in a week or two when I get the PCM back.

Thanks for the advice!

-Michael