I wonder why I bother, but want new Front Door Speakers in the '95 RMW

It seems of late the impalassforum is of little help, so I thought tonight I'd give it a go over here on the odd chance someone has a helpful answer.

The audio section there was no help whatsoever, but lots of lookers. Search came up with nothing either. I'd asked this awhile back and Jason LaChapelle offered a source but the speakers had been superseded and no usable installation available, so...posted again tonight in the wagon section in hopes a Roadmaster wagon owner has an answer...and now on the longroof forum.

Can anyone provide information/help on what aftermarket speaker will DROP-IN the front doors of a 1995 Roadmaster wagon with the OEM speaker mount and Concert Sound II.
It is NOT a 6.5 inch or a 5.25 inch. If one dimension seems to fit then another will not fit. Distance between the mounting holes is 6.25 inches while the opening for the speaker to fit into varies from 5.63 to 5.85 inches as it is slightly curved inward. I have yet to find a speaker with the required 6.25 inch mount hole to mount hole AND with the stepped part of the speaker back/frame small enough to fit into the OEM speaker mount/spacer.

I do not want to cut the car door, deal with wooden adapters (tried this and it requires cutting the door) or window mechanism interference if at all possible. It does not seem this should be necessary. I did locate a 1 inch plastic spacer but there again the size was wrong to mount on the door, or use a 6.5 inch speaker.

Any ideas? I know the alternative is to just ignore it and continue with the OEM Concert II speakers.

I removed a new door panel to repair a broken window slider and did not want to remount the door panel until I could find a replacement speaker. This really should not be this difficult, or so it would seem. 17 years and no Roadmaster wagon owner has done this?

Thanks for any useful information leading to a solution.

Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL

Got any pics of the opening?

I will make new photos and post on Sunday.

Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL

Richard ,have you contacted Crutchfield here in Charlottesville Va?They specialize in aftermarket
speakers for just about everything made
Jim.

Yes, and all they have is aftermarket that requires modification, at least according to the tech I spoke with before the holidays. I've bought three different speakers based on the information online and none fit so far. Either too large or too small in one of the dimensions or another...mounting tabs or speaker body. I know there is one out there that will work but not able to keep throwing money at "maybe" solutions.

I even figured out how to modify an aftermarket speaker to the OEM wiring plug to eliminate cutting the wiring harness. Means a little time in the junk yard salvaging connectors but worth it to me.

Thanks,
Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL

Richard,you may have to bite the bullett and settle for something close enough to work.You feel
the same way about your wagon as I do but if the dealer has nothing that will work you have to adapt another speaker to do the job.
Jim

I kind think that may be the only choice. I will probably remove the speaker mount and take it to a stereo shop for sizing. That was my last option if no one had any readily available information. Once I do find a solution I will post if in case someone wants to upgrade (if it can be done without hacking the car).

Thanks,
Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL

i would think it relatively easy to mount speakers with smaller mounting tabs,.
perhaps your task might be easier if you set wider parameters for the goal,
do you really care whats behind the door panel?,. ?
perhaps your self limiting choices have set a precedent, than can't be acheived
Your frustration and exasperation at nobody making a direct replacement, maybe it might energize you to get some speakers made to fit,.
I find it interesting you,d ditch the factory speaker,. but keep the factory speaker wiring plug,.

whats wrong with factory concert sound speakers?

Nick

I mounted Pioneer 4x6s in the little plastic bezel things in my wagon. I'd assume that the same piece would fit in any wagon door.... They're not the best, but definitely an upgrade over stock.

I replaced the speaker on my 95 RMW a few years back. I picked up a pair of 6.5" Roadmaster brand speakers from walmart for the front (yes I bought them based on the brand name!). They were a drop in replacement. At the very most I may have left one screw out on each, but it was a long time ago and don't remember that.

You could always try going with an aftermarket baffle. They make them for most speaker sizes. IF a 6.5" speaker would fit, you might be able to use these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-METRA-UNIVERSAL-SPEAKER-BAFFLE-5-25in-6-5in-/150633673063?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&vxp=mtr&hash=item2312777167#ht_2408wt_982

I just measured some old cheapie 4-way Sony X-Plod 6.5" speakers bought about 5 years ago that are kicking around. The space between mounting holes is 6.25" the depth of the speaker is 1-3/4" the diameter of the magnet is 3" and the width where the speaker frame starts to taper inwards to go into the hole in the door is 5". Model is XS-R1641. It's possible you may not be looking at "cheap" enough speakers. The better/more powerful the speaker, the larger the magnet, the deeper the speaker, and the less chance of fitting in the factory hole.

Do your speakers mount to the door or to the panel?

My 1994 RMW has one speaker per door, that's mounted to the door. When I replaced the front speakers, I drilled new holes in the plastic piece that the speakers were mounted to. I put female spade connectors on the factory wiring. I used circular-to-oval adapters to mount the same round speakers in back so I wouldn't have to futz with getting speakers which matched.

I'm not an audio guy. I called a local audio store for advice when the holes for the front speakers didn't match. He said, "You always have to drill when you put in new speakers." It made sense to me. There isn't a shallow 1.5 DIN head unit that drops into the 1994 Roadmaster either.

There are no more 1.5 DIN head units. It makes me sad. I wish there were. I hate the plastic bezel crap around my single DIN Kenwood....

Not to mention that some of the dash kits they make are so cheaply made that they don't even fit. The one that Best Buy sold me is a piece of crap. Barely keeps the headunit in the dash.

We got my POS-yet-effective dash kit at WalMart.

It's survived 6 years, 4 different head units (all different brands, oddly enough), and 3 cars.

What they sell now is garbage.

I've seen a lot of dash kits (car audio installer), but mine is by FAR the worst I've ever seen.



I don't even want to take my head unit out because it's such a PITA to get back in.

Wow yeah that does suck. Mine even looks nicer than that...

https://2img.net/h/i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/roo09511/Caprice%20Awww%20yeeeah/DSCI0214.jpg


Old pic with my Alpine iDA-X100. I sort of miss that head unit.

Sort of.

Wow, I guess I got really lucky with my dash kit. Bought it at Wal-Mart 4 or 5 years ago, the wood grain matches fairly well, its just a little darker than the dash though. As far as my door speakers go the factory ones were 4x6's mounted to a plastic adapter, I removed the adapter and replaced them with some cheap Sony 6.5's. I didn't drill new holes and as a result was only able to use 2 or 3 of the mounting screws, but I havent had any issues in the 4 or 5 years I've run this set up.

You are missing the trim ring. That's part of your head unit, not the install kit. The trim ring will make it look a lot better, hiding the metal tabs of the sleeve.

92cappy wrote:

I've seen a lot of dash kits (car audio installer), but mine is by FAR the worst I've ever seen.



I don't even want to take my head unit out because it's such a PITA to get back in.

Didn't come with it. Besides, it wouldn't fit flush anyways. You really need to see it in person. this dash kit is a POS. Doesn't fit at all. It's all I can do to keep the headunit in the dash....

Just got back from accompanying gwturbo on a parts pick up trip and looking over all these comments, and topic shift, on the speaker post. I appreciate the interest and will work on posting photos on what I am talking about and have attempted so far. Sometimes a picture is actually worth a thousand words as you see in the evolving discussion on dash kits for replacement radios.

Let's see some photos on speaker installations. Remember this is about ROADMASTER WAGON front door Concert Sound II system speakers. They do not mount to the door panels but to speaker mounts on the doors with a tweeter behind the little grill forward of the door handle. I'll include a photo of this as well. It is the same system used on the Fleetwood Brougham.

Thanks to all contributors!

Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL

The piece you are missing is like this:

Pioneer trim ring

Yea, I know. Idc about it though because the dash kit is so bad that it wouldn't fit flush anyways.

In terms of the speakers, how much depth do you have to play with in the door? I'm not sure how deep these are, but you could easily modify them, and put the stock baffles back in if you're worried about reverting to stock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-METRA-UNIVERSAL-SPEAKER-BAFFLE-5-25in-6-5in-81-4300-?cmd=ViewItem&hash=item2312777e75&item=150633676405&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_2408wt_982

stingaroo is correct 4x6. and here is a link if you want something better. at the begining of link they show a pod but down near the end of the post they show you how to make a template thatfits under the door panel so you can mount bigger speakers. i had a nicer copy of template but cant seam to find it. anyways here is the link.
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=239991&highlight=speaker+template

why is this door speaker thread now hijacked to a head unit thread??

The Chevy came with the 4x6 and the Buick (Concert sound) had the 6 3/4 (GM standard) with tweeters in handle.

Krzdimond wrote:

The Chevy came with the 4x6 and the Buick (Concert sound) had the 6 3/4 (GM standard) with tweeters in handle.

Could he just grab the plastic surrounds from a Caprice and put 4x6's there if he wanted aftermarket, though? I would ASSUME so, since the holes in the door are probably already drilled for the mount.

But, Richard, you'd probably be better off getting a shallow mount 6.5 than ANY 4x6. The brackets will require some cutting as well to fit the generally larger speakers of today, and frankly they just don't sound as good as most 6.5's that I've heard.

For a decent upgrade set, try these: http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-6032si-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B002C8AFEE

They have a mounting depth of less than 2" and should easily fit in your door.

Here are the photos Richard took.

I've never had an issue bolting speakers in there. Sadly I threw out my old 6.5" CSII speakers (I couldn't GIVE them away on ISSF) so I can't compare with the speakers I have lying around here. The ones I have have the same measurements as you described, as they should since it's pretty std. You should post a photo of the back of the OEM speaker next to the speaker you're trying to install.
I used component speakers and I mounted their tweeter ON the grille where the OEM tweeter is located, passing the wire through the door. I left the OEM tweeter in place, but disconnected. I didn't reuse the flimsy OEM wiring. I didn'T take any pictures of the installation, and I sold the car, so I can't get any.

I don't know what your plans are, but you probably won't see much of an improvement if you are staying with the stock headunit and only replacing the front speakers, especially if keeping the OEM tweeter wired. I'd have to check through the FSM, but I think the CSII speakers have a nominal impedance of 10 Ohms, and the fronts and tweeters are oddly wired IIRC.

I have some Boston Accoustics speakers I had in another car that I'm planning on putting in in late spring. I guess I can take pictures when I get around to it, but that probably won't be of any help to you.

Yeah, okay, that's a regular 4x6 opening. Quickest solution would be to just grab the plastic baffles from a Caprice and drop 'em right in.

I'm pretty sure Richard wants to go to an aftermarket 6.5" speaker to improve SQ. Going to a 4x6" speaker will do the opposite. Before the ISSF crash, people would get the 6.5" CSII speakers to swap into their Impala or Caprice since they sound significantly better. The infinity speaker you linked to is basically the 2-way, most recent version of what I had used and recommended to Richard, the 6000CS. Made for 6.5 and 6.75 openings.

Again, not sure how much of an improvement would be seen with the stock headunit.

I vote we ask a mad ,. err,... MOD,. to coagulate the relevant posts into a sticky include the 1.5 din adapters in the other thread,. very good info,.

Nick

Richard wanted me to post this so his photos would be included:

4501 Safari wrote:

Many thanks to Jason Lachapelle for his contribution and including two of the photos I sent him last we talked about this mod. The red outline on the door panel is the metal I’d have to cut to use either the wood or plastic adapter mounts. I’m simply trying to avoid cutting the car. I am going to attempt to include several more photos that may give some insight into what I’d like to accomplish, although it may simply confuse more folks who think the Chevrolet and Buick wagon door speakers for 94/5/6 are the same. They are not.

As for the head unit (formally known as a "radio") in my car, it is a NOS OEM unit with CD and cassette. I have a new Pioneer CD, cassette and satellite radio that could be installed. I have no intention of modifying my wagon's sound system purely for volume or bragging specs. I merely want to enjoy reasonably clear music in so much as my hearing will allow.



I intend to take the OEM speaker mount to a stereo shop and see what speakers may be available. The Infinity 6000CS looks like a great starting point.



Compare the OEM mount in the photo with the “forum approved” wood ½” thick adapter mount. I had to enlarge the speaker opening to accommodate the 6.5 inch Rockford Fosgate and OEM speakers. If this piece was two inches thick it would probably work.




The 1 inch thick aftermarket adapter mounts would not allow the RF speakers to fit due to the angle and size of the speaker frame. I even tried Dremeling out the spacer. This went nowhere fast.



Compare the depth of the RF speaker with the OEM. The foam is the padding on the OEM that helps seal it against the door panel and does not affect the speaker mount. Except for the clock position of the tabs relative to the speaker connections, the distance between the mount holes is the same.




Someone asked why use the stock wiring speaker connectors. For me, it makes hooking up and removing the speaker simple. I spent the time in the junk yard to salvage ends and figure out the correct polarity, so why cut the wiring if you don’t have to?

Many thanks to all who have commented and offered help since I posted this. Our car community is dedicated to keeping the interest in these vehicles alive and all contribute to helping in the process through participation.

Have a great week!

Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL

The photos I posted above were of the Infinity 6032si shallow mount two-way speaker. It has a top-mount depth of 1 15/16". The Infinity Reference 6032cf is the "standard" version and has a top-mount depth of 2 1/16", or basically the same as the OEM. The updated model of the 6000CS I had installed is the 6030CS, also with a top-mount depth of 2 1/16". The CS are a component speaker and require you to mount the tweeter separately.

I would love to be there to hear the difference with those new speakers mounted.Do the drivers
door first so you can switch sides to hear the difference in the sound quality.
Jim

Well... wahoo...I got the Infinity 6032si speakers and they are a direct drop in! Did not come with any wiring or mounting screws. Did come with some universal adapters and foam tape. The adapters are not needed and I really cannot see what good the tiny bit of foam tape does. Speaker works with the Buick factory CD/Cassette radio just fine, thank you very much. I will do the passenger door next.

Big tip I learned: do not reuse the 7mm socket head screws holding the speakers in place when installing replacement speakers. If the ones I've done are any indication, there is not enough room to get the screw AND a socket in the space available; a Phillips head screw works fine and fits!

I took the speaker wiring from the Fosgate pair and made adapters with the OEM harness speaker plugs, They perfectly. By the way, I also replaced the rear speakers with the Fosgate four ways I've had on standby for years. Guess what...now I have working rear speakers also. The connectors for the Concert Sound II front door tweeters are the same as for the rear OEM speakers, so making a speaker to OEM harness was simple, using all the junk yard speaker connectors I'd collected over the years.

Next on the list is to swap out the factory radio with the double din JVC Sat ready unit with the front input plug. I got all the XM stuff new off eBay and am considering a CD changer in the rear storage box if I can find a JVC CH-X1500 changer. The radio should have enough power to drive this simple system. At least I can hear the radio now...

Thanks to all who contributed. I'll chime back in when I get more done.

Richard Snipes
4501 Safari in Jax, FL