Roady Front End Rebuild, rear springs - plus added fun

The stock wagon springs are linear and have a spring rate of 37 N/mm (211 lb/in). The CC623s are progressive springs with an initial rate of 206 lb/in (uncompressed). The rate goes up as the load on them does. The load in their working range is way higher than stock. Krzdiamond is right: once installed, the CC623 is a stiffer spring than stock. It gets stiffer as you add weight.

IMO, the CC623 is too firm for a DD. They would be mismatched to the stock wagon fronts. I've had good luck with the CC505. They have an initial rate of 181 in/lb. Their working range is still higher than stock (significantly firmer ride). They lower the rear approx 1/4". Of course, I don't have any kids... I run bilstein shocks in the rear with NO air bags and have had no issues with any mass in the rear.

Jason,what would you run in the front to better match the moog CC505 in the rear?Last question,how about a more affordable shock you would recommend as a alternative to the Bilsteins?No kids here and rarely heavily loaded but I do enjoy picking the perfect line thru the occasional on ramp at twice the posted speed.
Thanks

Springs arrived today and they sure look nice.

Going lower is not an option for me and I completely despise any type of air shock.

Jim go for the Monroe Severe Service shocks. They're nice and firm, and I LOVE mine. Totally changed the character of the car - and they're about $150 for a set of four.

Thanks Ray but I need something thats a LOT less harsh due to this back problem of mine!I know
from what texas Mike said about those shocks when he was running them that they wont work
for me!

If any of you have a chance to nab a pair of rear springs from a 1A2, nab 'em.
They are progressives that ride & handle great, keep the rear in line and have the ability to take some weight when necessary without sagging.
If you see them in a yard, they should be cheap & easy to snatch.

Regarding shocks, early on after buying my wagon, I succumbed to the lure of HD shocks.
It was the thing to do, if you was gonna be coo... but I grew to hate the ride, especially in cold weather.
When I got rid of the 'correct' Bilsteins & put in plain old Monroes, the car went back to normal, and I went back to smiling.

Thanks jimbeau,I have a new set of gas monroes that I think is my best bet.Everything on this
wagon is original except the water pump.Other than a complete tune-up and oil changes the
car is as it came from the factory.Feel its well deserving of a complete going over!

94Woody wrote:

Springs arrived today and they sure look nice.

Going lower is not an option for me and I completely despise any type of air shock.

What he said....

Flasheroo wrote:

Thanks Ray but I need something thats a LOT less harsh due to this back problem of mine!I know
from what texas Mike said about those shocks when he was running them that they wont work
for me!

Go with the KYB Gas-A-Justs. So far I love mine. No float but rides like a Buick again.

jasonlachapelle wrote:

The stock wagon springs are linear and have a spring rate of 37 N/mm (211 lb/in). The CC623s are progressive springs with an initial rate of 206 lb/in (uncompressed). The rate goes up as the load on them does. The load in their working range is way higher than stock. Krzdiamond is right: once installed, the CC623 is a stiffer spring than stock. It gets stiffer as you add weight.

IMO, the CC623 is too firm for a DD. They would be mismatched to the stock wagon fronts. I've had good luck with the CC505. They have an initial rate of 181 in/lb. Their working range is still higher than stock (significantly firmer ride). They lower the rear approx 1/4". Of course, I don't have any kids... I run bilstein shocks in the rear with NO air bags and have had no issues with any mass in the rear.

Weird...didn't see that other option when I was looking at springs. Oh well, since I often have the car full of kids, dogs, and a boat or trailer on the back, I like what I got. I honestly can not tell that it's any harsher at all, the back rides very smooth, but it's SO much better loaded it's like night and day compared to what I did have.

I have to say something about ball joints. I went to a suspension seminar one time held by NAPA and the instructor asked the class, "how many of you use a pry bar to check you ball joints" 100% of us raised our hands. He then said "your all wrong". He said the proper way to check a ball joint is visual. The easy way is to look at the grease fitting. The grease fitting in the lower ball joint screws into a nipple sticking out of the bottom of it and reverse for the top. Now this nipple is your guide. When new,... the nipple sticks out of the ball joint and as time goes by it gradually retracts back into the ball joint due to wear. Now once it is even with the ball joint casing it is a good ideal to plan on changing it out for a new one. If the nipple is sunk into the casing then it is overdue. The reason the ball joint moves up and down when using a pry bar is that the ball joint have this spring inside of them. He yes you can judge it somewhat by the bar but not accurately. That is what I was taught. Now mind you ths was back a few years and nowadays there are no grease fittings on some of them.

Just my .02 cents

Flasheroo wrote:

Jason,what would you run in the front to better match the moog CC505 in the rear?Last question,how about a more affordable shock you would recommend as a alternative to the Bilsteins?No kids here and rarely heavily loaded but I do enjoy picking the perfect line thru the occasional on ramp at twice the posted speed.
Thanks

I've matched the cc505 to the moog 5030 (9C1 equivalent) cut 3/4-1 coil. The wagon, 9C1 and Impala SS all had the same 77 N/mm (440 lb/in) linear front spring rate. Cutting the spring increased the rate slightly. It's a nice match. My brother runs it on his 96 wagon with sport (1104/0929) bilstein and likes it. However he's been wanting "more" spring in the front.

I've also matched it to Vogtland front springs. They are a progressive spring, but I can't recall the rate, which got lost in the ISSF database deletion. It was somewhere in the 600 lb/in range. For a while they were rumoured to be the same as the Hotchkis springs. I really like this setup with the sport bilsteins and hotchkis swaybars. Because the wagon has more weight in the rear than the SS and I'm running aluminium heads, the drop isn't as significant on the wagon than on the SS. I'm running 28" tires with plenty of room.

For the WB4, we just ordered Moog CC505s for the rear and 80098 for the fronts. They're the same as moog 7268 and are a 750 lb/in linear "SS height" spring. I suspect they'll ride higher in the wagon. This is for my brother's "new" car. Since he's only going to use the stock 9C1 front, I think they'll be a good match. I'll let you know.

Use whatever component makes you happy. I haven't heard of many people being unhappy with them, or the bilsteins, except for some guys on this forum. I honestly wonder if the bad ride in Mike's car was caused the firmness of the shock, or by mismatching a firm new shock to a suspension with every single component worn out. I like the ride with the above setups, but I'm sure some people legitimately find the bilsteins to firm. Just like I don't like the steering damper and some of you seem to swear by it. If I had to choose a shock, I'd shell out for the Bilsteins. If I were in the USA, on a budget, I'd buy the Monroe SS (they're about the same price as Bilsteins here.) If you're afraid they'd be too firm, maybe try the Bilstein 1516/1517. I've used those as well, and didn't find them to be floaty, as a lot of people say. I'd wager very few people actually used them and were rather just regurgitating what they'd read. It just makes them easier to find slightly used.

part number on the moog hd rear coil springs, they work on my 92 non tow package?

Yep, they'll work.

cheapest for the cc623 cargo coils is ebay...$38.44 shipped to you , dont know how they do it but thats the best you will find

shame eibach quit making wagon springs,.
i bought one of the last sets,years ago best all round spring for ride and performance,.
INMHO

Nick