It's time!!!! For a motor that is!!

So in the back of my mind I was getting ready to have a motor built (stock refresh) to put in the wagon when this one went away. I guess I should have done that when I did the tranny. I even had a conversation with 200OZ about it tonight on my way to my destination tonight.

Here is the rundown. Last week I went back and forth to Myrtle Beach, Charlotte and Greensboro from Central PA. Put a few miles on her and she ran pretty good (still working the bugs out of the t56 tune). I did notice that the oil pressure was off a little and the gauge as jumping around a bit. On Saturday I changed the oil after doing my off road thing and put 5 quarts of Mobil 1 in her with a Mobil one filter. I had been pushing the Amsoil to 12K with 6K filter changes, but decided to go back to 6k on Mobil 1. Put about 200 miles on her since the change. Oil pressure still not wonderful, but 10 lbs. per 1,000 rpm should be OK.

I got to my destination (Holiday Inn Gaithersburg, MD) and just before I shut her down I heard "the noise". I lower engine knock!!! Crap. Now I have to run home tomorrow and switch cars. I will check to be sure I do not have anti-freeze in the oil, but I do not think that is the case. I am guessing it is just plum wore out. I snuck bearings into the mains and rods a 40k miles ago or so, but it did not hold. They were it pretty tough shape then so it was worth a try. I am sure having the tune set up for 93 octane and not knowing it for 12k miles did not help!!!!

235,000 is not an exceptionally long life for a LT1, but I did not own it for the first 89k. So who knows what kind of maintenance was done on it. I was also experimenting with Amsoil and longer change intervals. Guess I cannot recommend that!! I was pretty rough on her though it saw 5,5000 rpm most every day at one time or another (I enjoy my T56!!!).

With a little luck I can pull the motor/tranny on Friday and get it to my builder on the following Monday. It is prime race season, so I hope he can get it turned around for me in less than a week. With a little luck I can put it back in on the following Saturday. Will give me a chance to inspect and straighten out the flywheel/clutch situation as well. Not the greatest of timing as we are going on Vacation at the end of the month. Hoping to take the wagon, as the Vue will be a little cramped.

You have my sympathies. NO time is a good time for an engine to go south.

you say it's not a hotrod but yet you drive it like it is.....

I'm thinking repeated trips to 5K on the tach is the biggest issue here.
One thing I do is change the dino oil every 3-4k and if the change light goes on before that (has a couple of times) I'll drain and fill it (but keept the same filter for the 3k).
Anytime that light has come on the oil was dirty.

12K seems absurd to me to wait to change the oil....

Well...sorry about the engine, but at least its one if the last things to replace on your Hot Rod!

Yeah, I dont get the 12k oil change too? Amsoil is not that special is it?

Chris

Tim,you drive your wagon hard and 12 thousand mile oil changes is just too much distance.I know
you accumulate miles quickly but its not a diesel either!

I'm gonna start an arguement now.....
I don't believe that the LT engine clearances were designed for the use of
synthetic oils and their inherant thinner film on the bearings!
Yeah, I know that Corvettes had a filler cap specifying Mobil One,
but earlier experiences that I had with that product in Mopar engines
revealed that on long runs, like highway trips, the pressure would drop
drastically!
Remember, oil grade weights are not necessarily a reflection of
viscosity, but only of the shear test grade that they can pass-- not
film strength!
O.K., I've spouted --- go for it!

I am not smart enough to talk about oil.

Got the extra motor out of the shed today and stripped it down to a short block. It is a 200k mile motor. Took it to my engine builder along with some other goodies. Going to do rings, bearings, seals etc. Hopefully I can re-use the pistons and rods. Should be pretty low cost (I hope! ). Now I have to get with a good clutch guy and figure out the chatter issue while it is out. Might have that lined up as well.

Now off to Richmond..... Jim come and visit me for Lunch tomorrow!!!!! I am Saturning it this week.....

ohh..what are the other goodies!

Just some stuff. Timing set heads, you know,stuff

How long were you idling before it started to knock?

A little rough but npt to bad

No, how LONG... not how GOOD. And what RPM were you idling at?

I think he said 5k.....

He idles at 5k?

It's one of those new turbine LT1s.

your on to me................

rkmdogs wrote:

I'm gonna start an arguement now.....
I don't believe that the LT engine clearances were designed for the use of
synthetic oils and their inherant thinner film on the bearings!
Yeah, I know that Corvettes had a filler cap specifying Mobil One,
but earlier experiences that I had with that product in Mopar engines
revealed that on long runs, like highway trips, the pressure would drop
drastically!
Remember, oil grade weights are not necessarily a reflection of
viscosity, but only of the shear test grade that they can pass-- not
film strength!
O.K., I've spouted --- go for it!

The pressure drops because the oil is FLOWING more.
Oil pressure doesn't mean a whole lot, except that it's the only way we have to tell if oil is moving.
Flow is what you are trying to achieve.
Synthetic oils fool us when we pour them. Sometimes they look water thin!
But that 'thinness' doesn't change whether it's 0 degrees or 250 degrees. That's the beauty of it
It gets to critical parts quickly when cold, but holds it's ability to protect on the hottest day and demands.

I like how Tim does not answer any of our questions. And yet...Im still excited about his progress. lol!! Slick operator!

brokecello wrote:

I like how Tim does not answer any of our questions. And yet...Im still excited about his progress. lol!! Slick operator!

Tim who..... What were we talking about?

Motor is out and disassembled. Parts motor is already dipped, but crank is no good. Will bring my crank to builder on Monday.

what cam are you putting in ?

Cam?

What color is your wagon?

( he has to know this one....)

its tan..... at least what i can see

a local guy here has a nice set of LE1 heads with beehives for $900...

Thanks Jason, but that would start looking like a hot rod..... we can't have that!

Motor was out Friday about lunch time.

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New clutch "while I was in there...." Turns out the LUK clutch was starting to come apart!! Yikes, glad I found the issue. Ram clutch will be my next attempt with a new flywheel. Pep Boys took back the bad LUK......

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Hood liner was getting nasty, so I removed it today.

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AHHHHHH much better...........

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the trans needs powder coating.

Is that the second bad clutch since you went with the conversion?If so I would look closely at
the flywheel and clutch mechanism for a problem.Maybe something isnt lining up inside the
bellhousing!Is there anyway you could put a pressure gauge onto the clutch servo lines?

New flywheel this time

Had to go new Pistons, rings, bearings, regrind crank (lots of miles on both motors). Going with stock pistons.

It is wierd that my 94 motor had standard rods and the 96 motor has powdered metal rods (a better rod). Even stranger is that my 94 Impala had the powder metal rods as well. ARP rod bolts. All the items should be to the builder by Tues/Weds, crossing my fingers to get it back on Friday......

Oohhh...nice hoodpad!!! Clean up that hood light though

brokecello wrote:

Oohhh...nice hoodpad!!! Clean up that hood light though

+1 on that hood pad where did ya score that one?

Cool hood pad. Hope the motor works out.
Pete

BigBlackBeaSSt wrote:

It is wierd that my 94 motor had standard rods and the 96 motor has powdered metal rods (a better rod). Even stranger is that my 94 Impala had the powder metal rods as well. ARP rod bolts.

How is that weird? I thought it was pretty common knowledge that some of the earlier 94 LT1's ended up with the standard rods, and then GM switched to powdered metal.


Have any of you guys looked into oil made by SFR?

1phastsswagon wrote:

brokecello wrote:

Oohhh...nice hoodpad!!! Clean up that hood light though

+1 on that hood pad where did ya score that one?

I think he bought that pad here...

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is your engine back in your nothotrod yet?

MrBuick wrote:

BigBlackBeaSSt wrote:

It is wierd that my 94 motor had standard rods and the 96 motor has powdered metal rods (a better rod). Even stranger is that my 94 Impala had the powder metal rods as well. ARP rod bolts.

How is that weird? I thought it was pretty common knowledge that some of the earlier 94 LT1's ended up with the standard rods, and then GM switched to powdered metal.


Have any of you guys looked into oil made by SFR?

My Impala had the taller springs so I assumed it was a early car. Just surprised that it how powder rods and not the wagon.

brokecello wrote:

1phastsswagon wrote:

brokecello wrote:

Oohhh...nice hoodpad!!! Clean up that hood light though

+1 on that hood pad where did ya score that one?

I think he bought that pad here...

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Yes sir Gonzo is the man!!!!

buickestate wrote:

is your engine back in your nothotrod yet?

No the builder ran behind a bit. Should be ready in the next few days. Hope to get it in the first weekend in June.

Are those pinholes around the top edge of the bore in picture #5 beginning from the top or is it
just my eyes ?

Looks like dirt...... Pennsyltucky dirt. Are you building the motor in a barn or somthin'?

Mike

Really?............

Flasheroo wrote:

Are those pinholes around the top edge of the bore in picture #5 beginning from the top or is it
just my eyes ?

Looks like little bits of metal to me.

The engine builder had just cc'd the cylinders to figure compression. The pistons are .035" down and the heads are at 53.5 cc's. The piston volume was about +4.4 cc's. I had to hurry and order a new headgasket to keep the compression from being over 11:1. I should be at 10.3:1 ratio.

Did you calculate your DCR ? It doesn't really matter what your static compression ratio is.

A quick look tells me 8.05:1

11:1 can be just fine with a bigger cam.

That's too low. A 9:1 DCR is your goal for a naturally aspirated LT1/4 engine. I know most dynamic compression ratio calculators suggest a ratio between 7.5 and 8.5 but the LT1's heads' combustion chamber is efficient enough to go higher.

A stock LT4 engine with its small overlap emissions cam had a SCR of 10.8:1. With an upg cam and good quench height (.035-.040") you have no reason to stay below 11.5:1 SCR. 11.5 is easily done with 91 or better octane, so get your quench height as tight as you can (edit: within this range) using head gasket thickness. More competent people on the ISSF (Mike Harris, Nab) can probably tell you a lot more about Quench Height than I can.

the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (cat's out of the bag) does so well in essentially stock engines because the dynamic compression ratio is almost perfect.

Check your email for a good SCR/DCR calculator (current data not for your app). Click the hyperlink for the Crane 227 card.

In summary: get the DCR around 9 and the quench around .035-.040" if you can and just accept the SCR where it falls.

Mr Gasket 5716 is .026" thick

at 0.035" your piston to deck clearance is in the "upper ranges" that I have seen. Admittedly, I haven't measured many (3) but they have fallen between 0.022 and 0.027. I think builders have reported some to range down to 0.034-0.035" in the hole.

Still looks a lot better than my Olds engine. Great build
Pete

Jason,

Does this look closer to what you would like to see?


ENTER YOUR DATA CALCULATED DATA
Cylinder Head Volume (cc) 53.5
Cylinder Head Vol (cubic in.) 3.264
Piston Head Volume (cc) 4.4
Piston Head Vol (cubic in.) 0.268
Gasket Thickness (in.) .026
Swept Volume (cubic in.) 44.389
Gasket Bore (in.) 4.11
T.D.C. Volume (cubic in.) 4.323
Cylinder Bore Diameter (in.) 4.030
Gasket Volume (cubic in.) 0.345
Deck Clearance (in.) .035 Note: Neg. nubmer above deck, Pos. number below deck
Deck Volume (cubic in.) 0.446
Stroke (in.) 3.484

STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO 11.268

OPTIONAL DATA
Rod Length (in.) 5.7
Adjusted Stroke (in.) 2.650
Intake Closing Point (degrees)ABDC @ 0.050 lift plus 15 degrees

DYNAMIC EFFECTIVE COMPRESSION RATIO 8.819