Cursed Cruiser!! More power window issues

Anyone want to buy a really clean '92 OCC with just over 60K miles on it???

....ok I'm not there yet, but this freaking car is cursed. I went at lunch to get the car inspected, and happily, it passed, smog check and everything.

BUT...

.....When I pulled up for inspection, I put the driver's door window down to hand the guy my insurance card, then shut the car off an got out.

When the inspector pulled the car back around after inspection, I was tickled to see a nice PASSED sticker on the glass.....but as soon as I got in the car I smelled a burning smell. Almost like when you leave the parking brake on, but that wasn't it. I went to put the door window back up, and it didn't move. I noticed that the switch button popped when I went to try to raise the glass...the little catch-thing on for the express-down had not released when I put the window down the first time.

SO now the driver's door glass is stuck down. All the other windows work fine. I popped the switch plate loose from the door and bent it over. The switch does not appear melted or damaged....so did the window motor burn up?? This would be window motor #2 since I bought this car. What's the deal??

With the car running, I pressed the other window buttons and could see the volt gauge move on the dash. The volt gauge does not move when I press the drivers-front button, so is it the switch or the motor that crapped out?

I drove home and put the Cruiser in the garage...the Grand Prix will have to live outside tonight when Misty gets home.

I walked over to the carport and fired up the Cutlass, and then remembered it's inspection sticker went out in August. Grrrrr..

SO at this point I need to remind you that vehicles in Austin now have to go through smog until they're 25-years-old. The Cutlass is a 1988....so needed to be sniff-tested one more time. Keep in mind when I did the 71 Olds 350 swap over the summer I yanked out all the computer and smog stuff. It has no A.I.R system or smog pump any more, but does still have the 307's exhaust and cat converter.

I'd originally planned to try to wait until January to inspect the car and just live dangerously...take it to the cruise-in's at night and such. Well now I had to drive it to work, and I'd seen a cop on the main road back to Dell. I said the heck with it and drove the Cutlass to the inspection place. The guys at the shop loved the car, and flipped out when I opened the hood at the site of the chromed-out 350. In all the back-slapping, they never did the math....and didn't smog it. I got a nice new inspection sticker on the Cutlass. I guess they didn't think of it. Next year it really is exempt. Good deal there....so drove the Cutlass back to work..after a 3hr lunch...yikes.

Will tear into the Cruiser's door....again...this weekend I guess. If it's a motor, I can get that at Autozone...but I dread swapping it. If it's a switch...guess I'll be going salvage yarding this weekend. Please tell me the Caprice and Roady use the same switch!

-Mike

they use the same switch

buickestate wrote:

they use the same switch

Good deal. Mine does not have a window lockout switch....I thought I saw one on a Caprice, but would have to change the bezel then too. We'll see.

I may try to run to the salvage yard on my lunch break tomorrow for a switch bezel. Only hesitation is I really don't want to leave the Cutlass in the salvage yard parking lot...you could steal that car in about 20-seconds. May swap for the Ram with Dad.

If I was sure it was the motor I'd just go to Autozone tonight and knock it out. I bet it is the motor...the switch looks fine...

81X11 wrote:

Please tell me the Caprice and Roady use the same switch!

-Mike

I was just following your orders.....

buickestate wrote:

81X11 wrote:

Please tell me the Caprice and Roady use the same switch!

-Mike

I was just following your orders.....

Do these switches fail often? My 96 Roady used a different switch.

I'm really thinking the motor itself burned up, and I should just suck it up and buy one on my way home and tear the door apart tonight....and while I'm in there cut the stupid plastic express-down arm off the switch. I hate having the Cutlass in the parking lot. The switch looks and feels fine when I press it.

my caprice is running with the switches out of a 93 rmw my 91rmw has switches from a 96rmw

I would think it safe to say that your switch is faulty and burned out your window motor, change the switch....

lock out or non lock out window switches are the same, the lock out is a separate swich on it's own.

Can you add lock out to a car that doesn't have it?

[sorry to minor thread jack]

Mike, that car is 20 years old and because it's a low mileage example, it has not been exercised properly. Parts stick, dry out, get brittle and break when not used often.

Look at it this way, sit on your couch for 6 months, leaving only to eat, shower and sh!t. Then get out and run 5 miles and see what "breaks". I made the same "mistake" when I bought my wagon.... 10 year old car with 74K on the clock (last 5 it didn't move) then promptly put 100K on the clock in 6 years.

Stuff breaks.

Take a deep breath and order the parts needed.... sooner or later you'll end up with a 20 year old new car.

81X11 wrote:

Anyone want to buy a really clean '92 OCC with just over 60K miles on it???

Sure. That wagon is obviously defective, so I'll just have to collect it for...salvage...purposes.

81X11 wrote:

When the inspector pulled the car back around after inspection, I was tickled to see a nice PASSED sticker on the glass.....but as soon as I got in the car I smelled a burning smell. Almost like when you leave the parking brake on, but that wasn't it. I went to put the door window back up, and it didn't move. I noticed that the switch button popped when I went to try to raise the glass...the little catch-thing on for the express-down had not released when I put the window down the first time.

Oops. What a bummer! I thought those circuits were protected by a breaker though...

Can you test the motor for continuity? I'd really expect the switch to start melting before the motor did, though varnished magnet wire can be unusually fragile.

81X11 wrote:

This would be window motor #2 since I bought this car. What's the deal??

GM window motors are pretty sucky in my opinion. The only ones I've ever been impressed with are the ones in my dad's '79 Cadillac. Those things might take a finger off if you're not careful!

I think (don't quote me on this) that the Caprice and Olds use the same switch. The switches in my '93 look just like the ones in your Olds. They could still be different internally I guess...the only obvious difference I noticed is that your car has a different wood pattern there. Edit: I see that yours doesn't have the window lockout. Here I thought it did...shows what trusting my memory gets me! (Hard to believe that a Chevrolet would have a feature the Olds didn't though!)

Krzdimond wrote:

Mike, that car is 20 years old and because it's a low mileage example, it has not been exercised properly. Parts stick, dry out, get brittle and break when not used often.

Look at it this way, sit on your couch for 6 months, leaving only to eat, shower and sh!t. Then get out and run 5 miles and see what "breaks". I made the same "mistake" when I bought my wagon.... 10 year old car with 74K on the clock (last 5 it didn't move) then promptly put 100K on the clock in 6 years.

Stuff breaks.

Take a deep breath and order the parts needed.... sooner or later you'll end up with a 20 year old new car.

I know, I know...I just like to bitch and moan. I'm going to make a mad dash to the salvage yard on my lunch break tomorrow and grab a switch. If that fixes it, great, if not, I'll be drilling out rivets this weekend.

Does anyone know about the window lockout? Can it be added? I'd like to have that....the 3-year-old likes to mess with the window switches.

-Mike

81X11 wrote:

Does anyone know about the window lockout? Can it be added? I'd like to have that...so I can dutch oven Misty and the kids......

-Mike

you Sir are evil!

Just went out to the garage....window is still dead. Hoped it might "re-set" this afternoon. Nope.

I do hope it's the switch. The other three windows are up, and when I push the Up buttons for them, the dash lights dim and the volt gauge drops (key on, engine off). When I push the driver's window button, nothing dims....it's like it's not sending power.

We shall see!

buickestate wrote:

81X11 wrote:

Does anyone know about the window lockout? Can it be added? I'd like to have that...so I can dutch oven Misty and the kids......

-Mike

you Sir are evil!

Nice!

Is it possible that a wire bore in the door or door jamb?

Mike, you need to set yourself a 3-hour time window between the time you get fired up about something to the time you post about it. Seriously.

On a related note: I have discovered that I am MUCH less prone to impulse buying if i simply email a link to myself and then ignore it for 24 hours. If it still matters in 24 hours, I will buy it.

And yes, you did buy a 60,000 mile car that has likely sat for awhile. If the previous owners weren't maintenance freaks (which it doesn't sound like they were) then you'll have some work to do.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

Mike, you need to set yourself a 3-hour time window between the time you get fired up about something to the time you post about it. Seriously.

On a related note: I have discovered that I am MUCH less prone to impulse buying if i simply email a link to myself and then ignore it for 24 hours. If it still matters in 24 hours, I will buy it.

And yes, you did buy a 60,000 mile car that has likely sat for awhile. If the previous owners weren't maintenance freaks (which it doesn't sound like they were) then you'll have some work to do.

Sorry for venting.

So I just pulled back on the window sweep weatherstripping and took a sniff....smells burned inside the door. Have a feeling I'll be taking a door panel off again in the near future. Will go nab a used switch tomorrow...just in case.

-Mike

New window switches are only 23 bucks on ebay.The burning smell is probably from when the switch finally burned up.Now if your motor was bad and the switch was good wouldnt the
power still go thru the switch to the motor and show up on the dash charge gauge?Since your gauge shows nothing it has to be the switch.
IMHO

Flasheroo wrote:

New window switches are only 23 bucks on ebay.The burning smell is probably from when the switch finally burned up.Now if your motor was bad and the switch was good wouldnt the
power still go thru the switch to the motor and show up on the dash charge gauge?Since your gauge shows nothing it has to be the switch.
IMHO

I like the way you think. Just checked and Wrench-A-Part in South Austin has five Caprice's and two Roadmasters...funny how they list Caprice and Caprice Clasic as seperate models.

They sell the switches for $5 each. http://www.wrenchapart.com/index.aspx . I'm running down there at lunch and going to grab a couple. Fingers are crossed!

-Mike

I put Misty in the Dodge Ram, and Dad in the Cutlass. I've got the Grand Prix for my yard run at noon. Would have taken the Ram but that 360 just guzzles gas and it's a near-60 mile round-trip.

Have the tools in the trunk..and a work shirt. Will be the only one in the yard in slacks, dress shoes and a Harley Davidson t-shirt.

81X11 wrote:

I put Misty in the Dodge Ram, and Dad in the Cutlass. I've got the Grand Prix for my yard run at noon. Would have taken the Ram but that 360 just guzzles gas and it's a near-60 mile round-trip.

Have the tools in the trunk..and a work shirt. Will be the only one in the yard in slacks, dress shoes and a Harley Davidson t-shirt.

I suppose it might be too late to ask this, but if you see a 91-93 Caprice (sedan or wagon, I'm sure this part is common to both), would you consider grabbing the climate controls and the bit of wiring harness that plugs into the "mode switch" with a little wire attached?

Mine's burnt and I'm not having any luck finding one. I would gladly cover the cost of the part, shipping and something for your time and trouble.

Wonder what else Mike will bring back!Gotte be a good story though.

I'd be willing to bet he brings back plenty of pictures if nothing else.

Where would we all be without Mike's pictures.I guess he grew up with pictures always being
taken.In my family,we hardly ever took pictures and thats something I will always regret.
Mike's lucky that way,but his kids will be the real lucky ones having all those pics to look back
on when they are adults.I have 2 nice digital cameras and my phone camera but I always forget
to take the damn pictures.Guess thats one of the first things Mike does when he gets someplace is start taking pictures!

Well it's not the switch....

Made it back from my mad dash to South Austin. Ended up going home just now to try the switch I nabbed, and it made no difference...driver's door glass is DOA, all the other windows work fine.

And yes, I nabbed a few pics from the yard. I was really rushed, it was my lunch break and all, but pulled out my cell phone for the below cars. It was not a wasted trip, got a few little things.

SO here we go!

First up was this fairly picked-over '95 Caprice. Door switches gone, nothing else I needed, guy in the pic walked up just as I snapped the pic...ok then.


Next up was this very complete but BASIC 91 Caprice wagon. Power nothing inside, and a solid non-split bench seat front seat. HOWEVER the tail gate and side trim plastic is the same color blue as my Olds, and a lot less scratched. I may try to go back down there for those when I get paid again at the end of the month.



Here's a complete late 70's LeSabre. Another good front bumper


Impala SS anyone? Not much left. Interior was GONE.


Here's a complete 91 Caprice, loaded out, leather and all, but no window switches. Getting nervous now! Had just driven 30 miles and no switches yet.


Very complete and solid '96 Caprice. The grill was PERFECT, body nice, and interior mostly still there, BUT the door switches were broken.


And finally, THE ONE! Very solid 1993 Roadmaster wagon, sold new at Covert Buick here in Austin. Not a spec of rust! Tons of new parts under the hood too.


And yes, I nabbed the air cleaner front with the 5.7 badge for my OCC!


I'm a total idiot, I should have pulled the grill, the chrome was perfect. Will go back the end of the month for it...I mean, I WILL have a Roady again eventually and I remember how hard a good one was to find when mine got damaged. Dumb, but again I was rushed for time.


TONS of good parts on this 93 Roady. Underside is spotless. On the window it says the engine and trans are fine but it has an electrical problem?? I took another look at the car, and it hit me, sadly I know this car! https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t6975-clean-looking-93-roady-wagon-in-austin . Looks like he didn't sell it and junked it. SAD. Was $500 when I last saw it listed. Such a waste!

Inside the '93 Roady I found my window switches, plus a BRAND NEW Haynes repair manual in the rear side cargo box..score! I also yanked the cargo area grab handle light lenses, the chrome tail gate lock knob, and the chrome sliding roof-rack rail.


Ran home and plugged in the window switch, and as mentioned, it did not fix the issue. Will be getting a new window motor this weekend....will just drive the Cutlass the rest of this week.

Here's the chrome Roady roof rail, switches and Haynes manual sitting on my '67 GTO workbench/garage art.


I think I may make me a hybrid roof rack rail. The OCC's rail is solid black...ends and all. I'm thinking of putting the Roady chrome end-caps/latches on the black crossbar rail. Add a little chrome to the roof but not have a bright bar across the entire top. We'll see...

That's the latest gang. Back at work.

-Mike

That Roady does look full of goodness. The alternator appears to be very fresh.

uxwbill wrote:

81X11 wrote:

I put Misty in the Dodge Ram, and Dad in the Cutlass. I've got the Grand Prix for my yard run at noon. Would have taken the Ram but that 360 just guzzles gas and it's a near-60 mile round-trip.

Have the tools in the trunk..and a work shirt. Will be the only one in the yard in slacks, dress shoes and a Harley Davidson t-shirt.

I suppose it might be too late to ask this, but if you see a 91-93 Caprice (sedan or wagon, I'm sure this part is common to both), would you consider grabbing the climate controls and the bit of wiring harness that plugs into the "mode switch" with a little wire attached?

Mine's burnt and I'm not having any luck finding one. I would gladly cover the cost of the part, shipping and something for your time and trouble.

Sorry Bill! I'm planning to go back at the end of the month. I want that Roady grill for my stash and possibly the cargo-area panels from the Caprice wagon. Will of couse give a heads-up before I go. Is there any trick to removing the control head on those? I never have on a TBI car.

-Mike

81X11 wrote:

Sorry Bill! I'm planning to go back at the end of the month. I want that Roady grill for my stash and possibly the cargo-area panels from the Caprice wagon. Will of couse give a heads-up before I go. Is there any trick to removing the control head on those? I never have on a TBI car.

No problem! I figured I was rather late in asking anyway. I spent my afternoon calling around and visiting area junkyards. Should have brought my camera like you did...I didn't see much in the way of wagons, though there was rather picked over '79 Caprice "Estate" (yes it had that badging on it) wagon. One place let me walk around amongst the cars. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed doing that. The office at that place was a madhouse.

The only "trick" I'm aware of in removing the climate control unit is to unclip the metal wire that connects it to the heat/cool damper door. The service manual says that failure to do so before removing the controls will break what the wire attaches to at the other end. A plastic clip in the climate control assembly should be depressed to release this, but it didn't work that way on mine. Pressing mine did nothing to free the wire. I broke said clip on the climate control end. The ash tray needs to come down to do that part. There are four screws holding the ash tray in place, two at each side of the upper compartment (with the cup holder) and two at each side of the ashtray compartment. They're recessed and I had to look for a while until I figured out what the service manual wanted me to do. Then you can disconnect the clip from the underside of the climate controls. From there it unscrews and all the electrical and vacuum connectors can be pulled off. Some of them are on there quite tightly.

I also need the bit of wiring harness (with a few inches of wire) that plugs into the "OFF MAX NORM BI-LEV VENT HEAT DEF" slider. My car does have a heated rear window.

Anyway...I struck out at all but one of the junkyards. One of the yards I called has one in a sedan, but I'm certainly interested in spares. Somehow I can see this potentially happening again. I've also been approached by another group member and will probably take them up on their offer. That way if someone else should have this happen, I can sit on an extra and keep it from going the way of the crusher.

uxwbill wrote:

81X11 wrote:

Sorry Bill! I'm planning to go back at the end of the month. I want that Roady grill for my stash and possibly the cargo-area panels from the Caprice wagon. Will of couse give a heads-up before I go. Is there any trick to removing the control head on those? I never have on a TBI car.

No problem! I figured I was rather late in asking anyway. I spent my afternoon calling around and visiting area junkyards. Should have brought my camera like you did...I didn't see much in the way of wagons, though there was rather picked over '79 Caprice "Estate" (yes it had that badging on it) wagon. One place let me walk around amongst the cars. I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed doing that. The office at that place was a madhouse.

The only "trick" I'm aware of in removing the climate control unit is to unclip the metal wire that connects it to the heat/cool damper door. The service manual says that failure to do so before removing the controls will break what the wire attaches to at the other end. A plastic clip in the climate control assembly should be depressed to release this, but it didn't work that way on mine. Pressing mine did nothing to free the wire. I broke said clip on the climate control end. The ash tray needs to come down to do that part. There are four screws holding the ash tray in place, two at each side of the upper compartment (with the cup holder) and two at each side of the ashtray compartment. They're recessed and I had to look for a while until I figured out what the service manual wanted me to do. Then you can disconnect the clip from the underside of the climate controls. From there it unscrews and all the electrical and vacuum connectors can be pulled off. Some of them are on there quite tightly.

I also need the bit of wiring harness (with a few inches of wire) that plugs into the "OFF MAX NORM BI-LEV VENT HEAT DEF" slider. My car does have a heated rear window.

Anyway...I struck out at all but one of the junkyards. One of the yards I called has one in a sedan, but I'm certainly interested in spares. Somehow I can see this potentially happening again. I've also been approached by another group member and will probably take them up on their offer. That way if someone else should have this happen, I can sit on an extra and keep it from going the way of the crusher.

I had to do basically as much work to get the control head out on my '86 Caprice. It was attached to the radio, a real mess! Hated that design. If I see a good control head, and am not on my lunch break I'll be glad to grab it for you.

Too bad they don't let you wander around more yards there. I love yarding, as long as it's not 10,000 degrees(was 77 today..nice!). I do hate lawyers and insurance companies for ruining the yarding experience for father-son trips. Dad took me yarding from about 8-years-old on, and it helped me become the car nut I am now. The BIG U-Pull-It yards will not allow anyone in under age 16. Happily there is still one yard north of Austin that welcomes kids (Harold's Salvage in Briggs Tx), and I take my oldest son with me when I go there...but his prices are higher than the huge places. Still, Eddie loves to go with me.

-Mike

Mike, if you go back I need some goodies off that caprice and the roadie.

Mike,have you checked to make sure the switch has power going to it with a multimeter?Did you
remember to turn the key on when you checked this switch?LOL.Nice score on the manual,thats a
20 buck book when new!I ahve a chrome/polished crossbar as well and was thinking about getting another for the OCC and yank the black bar off for now!And lastly,what makes you think this switch is not burned up too?

Flasheroo wrote:

Mike,have you checked to make sure the switch has power going to it with a multimeter?Did you
remember to turn the key on when you checked this switch?LOL.Nice score on the manual,thats a
20 buck book when new!I ahve a chrome/polished crossbar as well and was thinking about getting another for the OCC and yank the black bar off for now!And lastly,what makes you think this switch is not burned up too?

The new switch will open all the other windows, just not the driver's. Same thing the original one does. Pretty sure it's the motor.

mike
Will you be out there again soon? I would like the wires to the cornering lights on the 93 Roadmaster. I would like to add a second pair of horns too if it has them and the wires.
Let me know and send a PM with price. Shipped to 97367.
Thanks Dick

COL wrote:

mike
Will you be out there again soon? I would like the wires to the cornering lights on the 93 Roadmaster. I would like to add a second pair of horns too if it has them and the wires.
Let me know and send a PM with price. Shipped to 97367.
Thanks Dick

The horns would need to come off a Roady sedan or Caddy Fleetwood, those got the 4-note setup. The Roady wagons just had the 2-note, same as the Olds. That said, sedans pop up all the time and I'll be glad to yank a pair when I see them.

As for the corning lights, they are a dime-a-dozen. Have seen them on Olds-Chev-Buicks. Lots out there. Glad to nab a set as well. Will see about the wiring....I've never chased the corning light wiring.

I'll try to hit the yard again at the end of this month, or the beginning of next month, when funds allow. I've already way over-spent my "mad-money" for car stuff for this month, and I still have to go buy a new front door power window motor and tackle that job this weekend. Yippee.

-Mike

Mike,
I have the cornering lights but not the sockets and wiring. My OCC did not have them .

COL wrote:

Mike,
I have the cornering lights but not the sockets and wiring. My OCC did not have them .

But you still have the reflectors for the lights? Weird. Glad to yank the wiring!

81X11 wrote:

COL wrote:

Mike,
I have the cornering lights but not the sockets and wiring. My OCC did not have them .

But you still have the reflectors for the lights? Weird. Glad to yank the wiring!

My OCC originally had the cornering light blocked off (factory) and only one small turn indicator. I got aftermarket clears but they have the big hole for a cornering light too.
Dick

You remind me of my parents neighbor. Spending money restoring other cars and such while his GTO sits neglected in the Garage.

94Woody wrote:

You remind me of my parents neighbor. Spending money restoring other cars and such while his GTO sits neglected in the Garage.

your parents live in roundrock?

smells like a bad ground,..

Moving to a new thread...actually the original thread.

https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t7130-92-occ-power-window-motor-fun#75522

81X11 wrote:

Moving to a new thread.

You mean it "turns a corner" or does it get worse?

[quote="uxwbill"][quote="81X11"]

81X11 wrote:

When the inspector pulled the car back around after inspection, I was tickled to see a nice PASSED sticker on the glass.....but as soon as I got in the car I smelled a burning smell. Almost like when you leave the parking brake on, but that wasn't it. I went to put the door window back up, and it didn't move. I noticed that the switch button popped when I went to try to raise the glass...the little catch-thing on for the express-down had not released when I put the window down the first time.

Oops. What a bummer! I thought those circuits were protected by a breaker though...

quote]

I'm pretty sure the motors are protected by an internal thermal OL, my OEM just kept getting weaker and weaker before she gave up the ghost.......no smoke or nasty smell either.