| Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts | |
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Bull
Posts : 164 Join date : 2013-02-09 Location : MA
| Subject: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:46 pm | |
| Weeks ago, I pulled the top of my engine apart to do an intake gasket job. I decided to replace all my rubber vacuum hoses, which were in terrible condition, with silicone ones from an eBay vendor. He was on vacation and couldn't ship them out for weeks. While waiting, I pulled my exhaust manifolds and entire exhaust to redo it. I found that I had three broken exhaust manifold bolts, the rear two on the DS and one of the rear ones on the PS. Thankfully, the PS bolt was sticking out a lot and came out with basically just finger pressure. The DS bolts were snapped off below the head. I saw on the Badass forum, and a million other places, where guys use the weld-a-nut-to-the-stump trick. Everyone says it works better than any other method. This is probably true if you can weld; I obviously suck at welding because my attempts at performing the trick resulted in a big mess, a lot of cursing, and several empty beer bottles. This is likely due to the fact that I've never welded before. I wasted enough time trying to do the welding trick to pull the head twice already. I just today decided "eff this" and pulled the head. Now that it's off I can figure out what to do, and with one million times better access and visibility than anything I'd have with it on the car. That being said I do still want to learn the darn welding trick for the future. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]How are these things looking to you experienced folks? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]I don't feel a ridge at the top of the bore, and I don't really see anything on the walls that indicates wear, but my eyes aren't trained to find that stuff. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Can I reuse this? A thin amount of the top layer flaked off when I stupidly hit it with a rubber hammer while breaking the head free. The engine was never fired after I installed these brand new gaskets a few weeks back. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]I kept the valve train parts and head bolts all in the same order that they came out, so everything will be going back into the exact same place it came from. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]I didn't want a ton of coolant flooding my cylinder when I pulled the head, so I rednecked my shop vac down to a vacuum hose to stick into the head bolt holes and suck them out after pulling the bolts. The small amount of coolant that did get into the cylinder quickly came out with my precision tip. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]This is one of the messiest engines I have worked on; everything is coated with a thick layer of black grime. I can't imagine it helps the coil to have its heat sink smothered? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Here is the mess I made of the bolt hole I tried the welding trick on. I can see that in trying to grind the pigeon poop off with a small stone on a Dremel, I ended up making some gouges in the head itself. Should this be filled with JB Weld or something, or will the gasket seal against minor gouges? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]I feel great now. I don't mind stuff like this, because I am able to remove parts and read the FSM to put them back together. I disassembled and rebuilt three old Pontiac engines when I was younger, two of which were in cars I owned for a long time after so I know they ran well. I was getting so damn frustrated and like self-loathing with the welding issue. No one likes to feel helpless. But with the stereo cranking and the wrenches turning today, I felt great. | |
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BigBlackBeaSSt
Posts : 4560 Join date : 2009-08-01 Age : 59 Location : Sanford, NC
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:04 am | |
| Everything looks pretty good to me. Engine appears to be running well based on the color of the plugs and valves. I would not re-use the intake gasket, they are not real expensive so not worth the risk. As for as the manifold surface, as long as the ring around each cylinder is ok, and it looks flat from the pics, it should not leak.
While the heads are off are my making any mod's? Cam? Or it is a good time to freshen up the heads. | |
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phantom 309
Posts : 5848 Join date : 2008-12-28 Age : 114
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:26 am | |
| spray everything down with wd40 while its open it'll keep the surface rust down,. Motor looks like an average motor,. the grime is likely from oil sprayed for rust control,. really clean the head where the grounds go, and shine all the ground wires up good. As tim says,. don't re-use the gaskets,.
mig welding the end of that bolt will be easy now,.
clean your head bolts good,. the order they came out and go back is not critical other than right length,,.use a good sealer on the threads.
build a nice tall bead of silicone on the front and back lifter galley rails where the intake sits,. give it a good 20 mins to skin up nice, then put the intake on.
I,m sure there'll be a lot of advice from the experts,.
I,d just reassemble the motor,.with 8 new plugs,and get the injectors cleaned and flowed.
Nick | |
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Bull
Posts : 164 Join date : 2013-02-09 Location : MA
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:26 pm | |
| I did spray the cylinders with WD as per the suggestion above. I cleaned the DS ground strap and mounting point already, when I had been fiddling around during my original intake gasket job. I haven't found where the other straps are.
What sealer is recommended for the head bolts that enter the water jacket?
Is there any concern with the silicone bead being so tall that the excess gets squished and flows down into the lifter galley upon torquing of the bolts?
I already have new plugs waiting. As for the injectors, how should I clean them and what does it mean to have them "flowed"? My engine rebuilding experience in the past has all been with carbureted Pontiac motors.
To prep gasket surfaces, I plan to go over everything with an angle die grinder and a Roloc disc. Is it acceptable to use a rag to wipe the cylinders clean before reassembly, to pick up any debris, or might this scratch the walls?
Because I only needed to remove one head, I'm not having any work done other than getting those broken bolts out. In the future I wouldn't mind pulling things apart again to maybe add a cam or something. | |
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7290 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:08 pm | |
| Tape some paper or plastic over the the cylinders when removing gasket residue. Use your super vacuum to remove the particulate matter. Then remove the paper or plastic. The cylinders can be packed with clean rags and vacuumed before removing them. You can wipe the walls, then spray them with some WD40.
The FSM gives a GM part number for the bolt sealant, and the Haynes manual says to use a non hardening compound. | |
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Bull
Posts : 164 Join date : 2013-02-09 Location : MA
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:19 pm | |
| Good ideas about taping off or plugging the cylinders with rags, Fred. Thank you.
I do have the FSM but have not read the install procedure yet, only the remove procedure to get me this far. I'd hate to know what GM wants for a tube of its official sealant. I'd love to know an OTC alternative.
I have a large container of the silver Permatex high temp anti-seize, but am not sure if it's appropriate for this application. | |
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7290 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:01 pm | |
| Use the permatex for the exhaust bolts. The torque for the head bolts is more critical. You have to reduce the torque if you use anything on them. There is a rule of thumb, but I do not remember what it is off hand. I believe the torque needed is about 10-20% less with lube/sealant. It may be somewhere on the impala forum. | |
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phantom 309
Posts : 5848 Join date : 2008-12-28 Age : 114
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:59 am | |
| A tall bead doesn't mean 3-4 inches,. no it won't matter if some is squashed down into the lifter galley,. thats why i said give it 20 mins to skin up nicely,. then it won't ooze,. as for crap in the cylinders, first time it fires they'll be clean,. an injector shop will do the injectors, get an estimate first,. might be cheaper to ebay a brand new set. | |
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7290 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:19 am | |
| If you engine was running good before you pulled the head, the chances are that the injectors are just fine. | |
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toomanytoyz
Posts : 3233 Join date : 2008-11-04 Age : 48 Location : Sandown, NH USA
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:53 pm | |
| Looks pretty good. I wouldn't worry about it. As mentioned, don't reuse the gasket. If you did want to get the injectors cleaned and flowed, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is great. Cheap and quick turn around. Not sure that you need it, but it couldn't hurt. I use [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on the head bolts and water pump bolts. Don't clean that crud off the coil, it's probably preventing arcing! | |
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Bull
Posts : 164 Join date : 2013-02-09 Location : MA
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:04 pm | |
| $180 for the injector service, eh? That's a chunk of dough.
I see they clean them ultrasonically. I have an expensive Crest ultrasonic cleaner of my own. Of course, I don't know what solution they use and I certainly can't flow test anything. | |
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Dutch Pete
Posts : 421 Join date : 2009-12-07 Age : 64 Location : Netherlands
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:13 am | |
| Well, everything seems to be covered. But what's that trick piece of Blackhawk equipment doing in your engine bay? Pete | |
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Bull
Posts : 164 Join date : 2013-02-09 Location : MA
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:52 am | |
| - Dutch Pete wrote:
- Well, everything seems to be covered. But what's that trick piece of Blackhawk equipment doing in your engine bay?
Pete Yes, good eye, Pete. I love that vintage Blackhawk fluorescent work light. I was on a Blackhawk collecting kick for a long time. I ended up with lots of hand tools, a 4-ton jack, catalogs, and around thirty or more vintage tool display boards, like what used to hang in auto parts stores to show what tools were available. | |
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Dutch Pete
Posts : 421 Join date : 2009-12-07 Age : 64 Location : Netherlands
| Subject: Re: Pulling a Head to Fix Broken Bolts Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:12 pm | |
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