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 Over the axle exhaust question

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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeTue Dec 17, 2013 9:23 pm

I'm thinking about an exhaust system next for the wagon. I would like to go 2.5 with an X pipe, what I'm wondering about is does any one make a 2.5 over the axle pipe, or is this something I will have to have bent up at a local shop?
I know sedan pipes wont fit because of different gas tanks or something along those lineds. Can a sedan rear section be made to work by slicing in an additional bent piece?
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brokecello
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeTue Dec 17, 2013 11:05 pm

I just had a local shop bend mine. 2.5 in and I provided a pipes "x" pipe.
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeWed Dec 18, 2013 6:10 pm

Does the Pypes X pipe bolt up to the cat. convertor?


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Ancient_1

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeWed Dec 18, 2013 7:42 pm

Yes. Walker/Dynomax makes OTA pipes for the sedans that had to be modified that I used for mine.

Over the axle exhaust question Car-004
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brokecello
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeWed Dec 18, 2013 10:45 pm

GMjonn wrote:
Does the Pypes X pipe bolt up to the cat. convertor?


   

 No, they would fabricate the x pipe into the new cat back exhaust.

http://m.summitracing.com/search?keyword=2.5%20in%20%20universal%20pipe

That Walker kit looks nice!
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Ancient_1

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeThu Dec 19, 2013 5:46 pm

Mine did you just had to cut the pipes to length. This is the one I ordered. I used  this and this for over the axle. They had to be modified for the wagon and since I had a muffler shop do it I don't remember how much.

I should of explained a little better in my 1st post. The yes was to the 1st question about it bolting up to the cats. The other part was what I used for over the axle which was the walker/dynomax parts.
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeThu Dec 19, 2013 9:51 pm

brokecello wrote:
GMjonn wrote:
Does the Pypes X pipe bolt up to the cat. convertor?


   

 No, they would fabricate the x pipe into the new cat back exhaust.

http://m.summitracing.com/search?keyword=2.5%20in%20%20universal%20pipe

That Walker kit looks nice!

what page is that walker system on? I see lots of summit kits and pypes kits but no walker
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brokecello
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeThu Dec 19, 2013 10:58 pm

I didnt do a Walker kit (was just commenting on the post above) I had the shop build my exhaust and I supplied the mufflers and x pipe. I just linked universal X pipes.

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Krzdimond
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeFri Dec 20, 2013 12:28 am

I HATED my X pipe. Turned my V8 into a straight 6 in sound. No more 'over run' when you get out of the gas......
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Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeFri Dec 20, 2013 1:42 am

Jegs sells a 2.5" mandlrel bent system for under $300 shipped.  It's made by Heartthrob.  It's for sedans, but fit my wagon well enough.  I cut one tip down on a chop saw to make the final length of the exhaust the same on each side.

The Heartthrob folks will tell you that an H-pipe is superior to an X.
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brokecello
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeFri Dec 20, 2013 7:10 am


It all depends on your application...this should help you understand a little better.

https://youtu.be/Y0Va3sDhqwI
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 21, 2013 8:43 am

Bull wrote:
Jegs sells a 2.5" mandlrel bent system for under $300 shipped.  It's made by Heartthrob.  It's for sedans, but fit my wagon well enough.  I cut one tip down on a chop saw to make the final length of the exhaust the same on each side.

The Heartthrob folks will tell you that an H-pipe is superior to an X.

Went to jegs and couldnt even find heartthrob never mind a system for a roadmaster  Sad What mufflers came with it, and how do you like them?
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200OZ
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 21, 2013 11:59 am

I used a Pypes Street Pro Impala SS exhaust on my RMW. I cut the Pypes sedan ota pipes after the axle (just in front of the fuel tank), and cut my factory wagon tail pipes at roughly the the same place and welded reducers/increasers to the factory tails. It looks stock, mounts up nicely, sounds good, and the most restrictive parts (imo) of the factory exhaust is replaced with larger pipe. Custom ota/tail pipes, if done nicely would be the way to go, but it's more expensive, and quite a few I've seen were not done nicely imo. I hate seeing pipes, and pipe clamps hanging down for all the world to see.

In hind sight, and the fact that my engine is internally stock, I would just use a stock replacement system on my wagon, maybe the Walker set up, the larger 2 1/2" ota systems are a tight fit between the rear axle, and fuel tank heat shields. Pick out some nice sounding mufflers and be done with it.

I thought I had pics of my set up, but can't find 'em.

Mike
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 21, 2013 4:39 pm

GMjonn wrote:
Bull wrote:
Jegs sells a 2.5" mandlrel bent system for under $300 shipped.  It's made by Heartthrob.  It's for sedans, but fit my wagon well enough.  I cut one tip down on a chop saw to make the final length of the exhaust the same on each side.

The Heartthrob folks will tell you that an H-pipe is superior to an X.

Went to jegs and couldnt even find heartthrob never mind a system for a roadmaster  Sad      What mufflers came with it, and how do you like them?

Emphasis mine.   For your convenience p/n 555-30410.  Not too sure how you searched, but it shows up on the 1st page when you search for 94-96 roadmaster OR caprice under "exhaust."

It's a good system if you don't need stainless steel.  Mufflers are -as stated- made by heartthrob. If used in the rust belt, you can expect 2 years max out of aluminized mufflers.
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 21, 2013 5:37 pm

jasonlachapelle wrote:
GMjonn wrote:
Bull wrote:
Jegs sells a 2.5" mandlrel bent system for under $300 shipped.  It's made by Heartthrob.  It's for sedans, but fit my wagon well enough.  I cut one tip down on a chop saw to make the final length of the exhaust the same on each side.

The Heartthrob folks will tell you that an H-pipe is superior to an X.

Went to jegs and couldnt even find heartthrob never mind a system for a roadmaster  Sad      What mufflers came with it, and how do you like them?

Emphasis mine.   For your convenience p/n 555-30410.  Not too sure how you searched, but it shows up on the 1st page when you search for 94-96 roadmaster OR caprice under "exhaust."

It's a good system if you don't need stainless steel.  Mufflers are -as stated- made by heartthrob.  If used in the rust belt, you can expect 2 years max out of aluminized mufflers.
Thanks for the link, the price is right for sure. I live in Georgia, they have heard of road salt before but I dont think they have see n it down here. How do the mufflers sound? I do two 14 plus hour road trips a year and I'm looking for a low noise at hwy cruise speeds WTO noise I'm not worried about.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeMon Dec 23, 2013 2:36 pm

I've heard it on a sedan and it sounds good. You basically can't go wrong for the price. However it does drone at cruise RPM. Welding an H pipe in there will help a bit, but with no resonators, you can anticipate drone. I used to have dynomax superturbos (similar design to the Heartthrob) with the dynomax intermediates and CIA OTAs dumped behind the rear wheel. I drove across the country twice. I had 3.42 gears, so 2000-2100 RPM. It wasn't loud, but I found the drone annoying so I put in OTAs with resonators. However I am a huge wuss and am easily bothered by drone: I made each trip with 2 different people and they didn't think it was annoying. YMMV. The resonators addressed the issue. How you fit the system (how close it is to the floor) will also affect how much it drones.
You'll be fine for 10 or more years in GA with aluminized, but the mufflers will eventually rust from the inside out. I rusted through 3 pairs of the dynomax superturbos in Ontario/Quebec. Tenecor was pretty good about it, as I only needed to send in pics to get the replacement, which always arrived in less than 2 days. They seemed as surprised that they rusted out as I was that they would offer a lifetime warranty on an aluminized muffler.
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Ancient_1

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeMon Dec 23, 2013 3:35 pm

I had turbos on  mine and the drone wasn't bad but was enough that I replaced them with some Dynomax VT's. Here are a couple clips, I started with WOT to 65mph with cruise set, then accelerated to 75 and set cruise again even tho it my not sound like it. I would guess that most Turbo's would sound similar.

Turbos

VT's
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeMon Dec 23, 2013 6:21 pm

Looks like I will starts savin up for one off the jeggs systems, a X pipe, and if I need it resonators too.
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeTue Dec 24, 2013 5:18 pm






jasonlachapelle wrote:
I've heard it on a sedan and it sounds good.  You basically can't go wrong for the price.  However it does drone at cruise RPM.  Welding an H pipe in there will help a bit, but with no resonators, you can anticipate drone.  I used to have dynomax superturbos (similar design to the Heartthrob) with the dynomax intermediates and CIA OTAs dumped behind the rear wheel.  I drove across the country twice.  I had 3.42 gears, so 2000-2100 RPM.  It wasn't loud, but I found the drone annoying  so I put in OTAs with resonators.  However I am a huge wuss and am easily bothered by drone:  I made each trip with 2 different people and they didn't think it was annoying.  YMMV.  The resonators addressed the issue.  How you fit the system (how close it is to the floor) will also affect how much it drones.
You'll be fine for 10 or more years in GA with aluminized, but the mufflers will eventually rust from the inside out.  I rusted through 3 pairs of the dynomax superturbos in Ontario/Quebec.  Tenecor was pretty good about it, as I only needed to send in pics to get the replacement, which always arrived in less than 2 days.  They seemed as surprised that they rusted out as I was that they would offer a lifetime warranty on an aluminized muffler.




What kind of MPG do you get with a 3.42 rear? I think some one else commented on having 3.23's what kind of MPG would that get. I'm thinking about going to 3.08's my self. I really dont want to hurt hwy MPG too much
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeTue Dec 24, 2013 7:47 pm

I run 3.23s with an LO5, and I have a second car with 2.73, and the gas mileage is about the same on the highway. The 3.23s get a little worse mileage around town. That may also be attributed somewhat to my heavy foot. At the higher ratio, the gearing may not be optimum at "off the line", and "cruising" speeds Look at your torque and HP curves to see where they best match the ratio. You should be in your torque range for both situations. 2000 RPM is where the converter allows slip when in the lower gears for the bottom of the torque curve. My guess is that when you are at 2000 RPM at highway speed you should get good gas mileage, and performance when needed. I think the 3.23s are probably the best all around gear set. I run around 1500 RPM with the 2.73s on 29 inch tires, and a little over 1800 with the 3.23s on 27 inch tires.

I believe the 3.42s would affect the highway mileage a little. The HP required to go a given speed in similar cars is about the same, so, other than increases in friction produced by the engine internally, and its peripherals, it should be similar as well. The engine is only required to do the same amount of work to attain a given speed. This requires the same amount of fuel and air pumped through the engine. The additional friction of the engine and components that it moves will determine the difference in mileage. If the engine makes 5% more friction at each increment of higher RPM, that would be a small percentage of the over all "friction" that the car makes travelling down the road, but it will affect gas mileage. The increase in internal friction is almost expotential, so the greater the speed the more the friction increases per increase in speed.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeTue Dec 24, 2013 8:09 pm

GMjonn wrote:
What kind of MPG do you get with a 3.42 rear? I think some one else commented on having 3.23's what kind of MPG would that get. I'm thinking about going to 3.08's my self. I really dont want to hurt hwy MPG too much

22 mpg highway in the DCM wagon.  That's with 235mm wide 27" tall tires, crane 227 cam and ported heads.
24 mpg highway when I had them in the PPM sedan.  Same tire size, stock cam.

I drive at about 73 mph.  I'm going with 3.42s again with the caprice wagon.  IMO it's the best DD gear. I don't know if you have a tow-pack car, but if so I would find it hard to justify the cost of doing a gear swap to go from 2.93 to 3.08. If you are upgrading from 2.56, can get the 3.08 gears + ABS reluctor for almost nothing and you're going to drive it mostly on the highway, 3.08s would be fine. 3.23s are the smallest (numerically) gears I would consider for a wagon, but that's just my opinion.
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Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 28, 2013 1:05 am

I drove the Roadmaster for the first time today since installing the exhaust. At idle you can clearly tell that it is not a stock system, and if you get deeply into the gas pedal, it sounds pretty great to my ears. I do believe there is what people call "drone" at certain speeds, but I don't need it to be quiet when I drive. I combat the drone by making my music louder.

The Jegs/Hearthrob system fit with no cutting, except that I cut one chrome tip down so both sides were even.

As you can see from the pics, I had to sacrifice some ground clearance in the area after the axle in order to get the tips to exit at a height that I thought was reasonable vis a vis the bumper. I have about 5" of clearance at the lowest point in the system. I reckon that this is a function of the system being for a sedan, but I expect it to be a non-issue.

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200OZ
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 28, 2013 10:49 pm

Well, as long as your happy with it, but at what point do we just skip the ota pipes and run straight pipe under the axle to save some cash.... Maybe rotate the pipe clamps so you can't see them as much.
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Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSat Dec 28, 2013 11:20 pm

200OZ wrote:
Well, as long as your happy with it, but at what point do we just skip the ota pipes and run straight pipe under the axle to save some cash.... Maybe rotate the pipe clamps so you can't see them as much.

One guy on the big board did run pipes under his GAS TANK even. He got grief for it, but appeared not to pay it much attention.

I would say I am happy with the setup, yes. After driving the car around local roads, I am greatly enjoying the sound, am thankful that my clearances seem good, and I like the look of tips exiting under the bumper like I have them much more than side exit or downturned cucumber tips like I had before with the stock setup.

Rotating the clamps would be easy enough and I will probably do it, but walking around the car they are so low and hidden by the car itself that you don't see them.

I could have a system that is better under the following conditions:

1. Deeper pockets; it's not "saving" money if you don't have it to spend on more expensive options in the first place!

2. More skill. Cutting and welding the pipes for a more perfect routing would be possible for a less average man than I am.

3. More experience.

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brokecello
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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 12:10 am

Not bad!  Glad you found a solution that made you happy!

Chris
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Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 12:43 am

brokecello wrote:
Not bad!  Glad you found a solution that made you happy!

  Chris

Thank you!

And for the record, a more skilled individual might be able to make this exact same system fit differently than the way that I have it!
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 11:19 am

That system is pretty noticable after the rear axle. Why does it come down so low after it comes down over the top of the axle? If it wasnt raining I would go out and take a look at the location of the hangers. Is it possible to get the U part of the pipe up any closer to the floor of the car so the rest doesnt hang down so low? Could you take a picture of the pipe going up over the axle and post it up when you get a chance?
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Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 11:42 am

GMjonn wrote:
That system is pretty noticeable after the rear axle. Why does it come down so low after it comes down over the top of the axle? If it wasnt raining I would go out and take a look at the location of the hangers. Is it possible to get the U part of the pipe up any closer to the floor of the car so the rest doesnt hang down so low?  Could you take a picture of the pipe going up over the axle and post it up when you get a chance?

There are some variable here that might be in play.

I'm not a skilled technician.  Working by myself, under jack stands, trying to adjust and support and position and clamp the pipes, this is what I ended up with.  I was using the tip exit point as my guide, so all my adjustments were done in order to get the tips where I wanted them.  I was trying to position everything so that the pipes didn't hit the axle in any part of its travel, or the heat shields, or the body, or the control arms.  I was also doing the work with the rear wheels unsupported, so the axle was at its lowest point.  If the axle had been at ride height, perhaps I would have noticed the relatively low position of the pipes as I have them and been able to get them up higher, but I'm not sure.  The system is designed for a sedan so really I would not expect a fit like it was made for a wagon.  In fact, I talked to a guy at Heartthrob (very nice people to deal with BTW) and they told me that they had installed one set of these on a wagon, but it had required cutting and welding.  I am sure their install looked nicer than mine.  There is one guy on the big board who uses a Krusty the Clown pic as his avatar.  His name might be Sinister or something like that.  He has this setup on his wagon, and he also mentioned some cutting and welding.  He has a pic or two of the OTA area, and it looks tighter than mine.  So my guess is that you can use these pipes and get a different fit depending on your level of skill. But I didn't want to go to a shop and I don't know how to weld, so for me, being able to install the system in a way I find acceptable on my own felt like a victory since so many people say the sedan systems won't fit.

From the driver's seat, or from walking around the car, I don't see the pipes under the car.  I am satisfied that they are installed to the best of my current abilities.  They sound good and fit well to my standards for this car.  I'm a 37 year old dude with minimal skills on a $100 per month car hobby budget, trying to have fun with a car that I like the looks and functionality of.  I also prefer Miller High Life for beer, punk for music, and chubby chicks, so my general standards might be a lot lower than many folks here.

I do have some pics of other parts of the pipes that I will try to upload later.  I'm not going to have the car back up on stands anytime soon.  It lived there for five months and now I am just going to enjoy it.  I can always tweak it later if it bothers me, but I think I will just move on to other endeavors.
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jasonlachapelle

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 1:36 pm

Pretty decent install for a DIY.  Personally, I'd have gone to a good exhaust place to have it tucked in afterwards.  Having it tucked in closer to the floor will not only help your ground clearance but will cut down on the drone.  You've done the bulk of the work, so a skilled exhaust shop could have you in and out in a few minutes, for very little money.

Just some observations for others who are considering this system, as is, it won't clear a class 3 hitch.
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Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 1:56 pm

jasonlachapelle wrote:
Pretty decent install for a DIY.  Personally, I'd have gone to a good exhaust place to have it tucked in afterwards.  Having it tucked in closer to the floor will not only help your ground clearance but will cut down on the drone.  You've done the bulk of the work, so a skilled exhaust shop could have you in and out in a few minutes, for very little money.

Just some observations for others who are considering this system, as is, it won't clear a class 3 hitch.

Perhaps I will go that route in the future, then. I used stainlessband clamps so it would be very easy to reposition the pipes in addition to any cutting/welding a shop had to do.

I actually don't even know of anyone near me that does custom exhaust work. Many years ago I did, but not today.
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 3:16 pm

Bull wrote:
jasonlachapelle wrote:
Pretty decent install for a DIY.  Personally, I'd have gone to a good exhaust place to have it tucked in afterwards.  Having it tucked in closer to the floor will not only help your ground clearance but will cut down on the drone.  You've done the bulk of the work, so a skilled exhaust shop could have you in and out in a few minutes, for very little money.

Just some observations for others who are considering this system, as is, it won't clear a class 3 hitch.

Perhaps I will go that route in the future, then.  I used stainlessband clamps so it would be very easy to reposition the pipes in addition to any cutting/welding a shop had to do.

I actually don't even know of anyone near me that does custom exhaust work.  Many years ago I did, but not today.  

Yikes, I have a hitch and didnt even think about that part
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mtrhead79

mtrhead79

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 5:43 pm

i think it looks good for doing it your self. i bet heart throb cut the part that comes down after the rear and made it a little shorter so it sits up higher
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GMjonn

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 8:56 pm

mtrhead79 wrote:
i think it looks good for doing it your self. i bet heart throb cut the part that comes down after the rear and made it a little shorter so it sits up higher

That sounds very reasonable
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bamalongroof

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Dec 29, 2013 9:13 pm

Good job Bull - I will look into that system also I hate crawling under the car this time of year...
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94Woody

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Jan 26, 2014 1:03 pm

Bull wrote:
  There is one guy on the big board who uses a Krusty the Clown pic as his avatar.  His name might be Sinister or something like that.  He has this setup on his wagon, and he also mentioned some cutting and welding.  He has a pic or two of the OTA area, and it looks tighter than mine.  So my guess is that you can use these pipes and get a different fit depending on your level of skill. But I didn't want to go to a shop and I don't know how to weld, so for me, being able to install the system in a way I find acceptable on my own felt like a victory since so many people say the sedan systems won't fit.

That guy would be me. I did my install (using Dynomax parts) at work on the lift. I didn't do the welding however, as I wanted them to be done properly, lol.

Your setup looks good for a straight install in a driveway. A little time at a muffler shop and it will tuck up nicely. Your setup came with Tails while I had to fabricate my own to put on the Dynomax OTA portion.

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Bull

Bull

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PostSubject: Re: Over the axle exhaust question   Over the axle exhaust question Icon_minitimeSun Jan 26, 2014 11:13 pm

94Woody wrote:


That guy would be me. I did my install (using Dynomax parts) at work on the lift. I didn't do the welding however, as I wanted them to be done properly, lol.

Your setup looks good for a straight install in a driveway. A little time at a muffler shop and it will tuck up nicely. Your setup came with Tails while I had to fabricate my own to put on the Dynomax OTA portion.


Thank you. If I can identify which local shop around here does good work and can be trusted, I'll stop and ask them sometime what it would cost to tuck the pipes up tighter.

Weeks of driving on potholed Mass. roads have yielded no scrapes or bumps; the mufflers sound amazing to me. My wife says it sounds like the car has an exhaust leak, but her opinion on the matter is invalid!Laughing  My brother confirmed that the car sounds awesome and can be heard coming down the street pretty well.  
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