header question

so its time to start dropping some money into the engine. im wanting to put sidepipes on it whitch i have found allready, my question is are there any headers on the market that are pre drilled to accept the pipes from the smog pump. PA has inspection and its got to pass the sniffer so a delete is out of the question. Thanks for the input fellas

Run headers 11 months, 29 days and stock the day before and the day of the inspection

i travel for work so i really dont wanna haul around the stock setup. if i leave the parts at my house in pa my brother will scrap them for beer money

thats just asking for broken bolts every year imho

Just get the CARB approved Air Pump delete sticker that has the GM TSB that says it's ok to the smog nazis.

so how do i do that?

so where do i get this sticker at? i found some pre drilled headers from summit but there almost 500 bucks. theres also a smog tree set i have to buy then drill my own holes but thats still very expensive. if i can get the sticker it will save me alot of cash. also if i do the delete i need another pulley/tentioner or just a smaller belt?? its not that hard to confuse me and i am officially confused lol

roadmastercouple wrote:

so where do i get this sticker at? i found some pre drilled headers from summit but there almost 500 bucks. theres also a smog tree set i have to buy then drill my own holes but thats still very expensive. if i can get the sticker it will save me alot of cash. also if i do the delete i need another pulley/tentioner or just a smaller belt?? its not that hard to confuse me and i am officially confused lol

The air pump delete that Bill was talking about was specific to the LT1 cars. Yours is a TBI so you'll still need your pump to be legal. Shouldn't be too hard to drill and tap your headers to duplicate the current function or re-route your air lines directly into the cats. Your going to have to get two cats if your putting duals onto this car but if memory serves, you can get some high flow aftermarket ones that are already predrilled for this purpose.

As for adding the additional O2 and getting it to talk to the ECM, thats another issue better addressed by someone else more conversant in these things. Gawd I hate gasoline engines

The other Bill

Oh. My bad. Wasn't paying attention again. lol. Sorry.

convert2diesel wrote:

roadmastercouple wrote:

so where do i get this sticker at? i found some pre drilled headers from summit but there almost 500 bucks. theres also a smog tree set i have to buy then drill my own holes but thats still very expensive. if i can get the sticker it will save me alot of cash. also if i do the delete i need another pulley/tentioner or just a smaller belt?? its not that hard to confuse me and i am officially confused lol

The air pump delete that Bill was talking about was specific to the LT1 cars. Yours is a TBI so you'll still need your pump to be legal. Shouldn't be too hard to drill and tap your headers to duplicate the current function or re-route your air lines directly into the cats. Your going to have to get two cats if your putting duals onto this car but if memory serves, you can get some high flow aftermarket ones that are already predrilled for this purpose.

As for adding the additional O2 and getting it to talk to the ECM, thats another issue better addressed by someone else more conversant in these things. Gawd I hate gasoline engines

The other Bill

thanks for the input bill. So after reading that im thinking of getting the headers with a y pipe and run a single 3 inch all the way back then branch off to 2 flowmasters. probably be cheaper in the long run. that should up my hp a little and sound decent right?

thanks for the input bill. So after reading that im thinking of getting the headers with a y pipe and run a single 3 inch all the way back then branch off to 2 flowmasters. probably be cheaper in the long run. that should up my hp a little and sound decent right?[/quote]

i think personally the gains will be minimal, and a lot of effort and money,.

Nick

Mike:

For the TBI engines, theres nothing wrong with a single 2 1/2 or 3 inch exhaust. The 3 inch is a little tricky getting over the axle but it can be done. Did it for the diesel by piecing together a bunch of mandrel bent "J" pipes. You might experience a slight drop in low end torgue with the 3 inch but gain in high end power.

If its a daily, stick with the 2 1/2 inch, mandrel bent pipe and a high flow mufffler. A good exhaust shop (check to be sure they can do 3 inch pipe) should be able to do it. That way you can keep the original cat.

If you opt for the 3 inch, careful what muffler you choose. Most high flows will drone in that size and need a resonator, thus negating the flow benifits from the muffler. Ain't this fun????

Like Nick said, splitting a single into two out just adds pipe and multiple bends. The result is the longer drivers side pipe will flow very little. Like water, gas flows to the area of least resistance, in this case the passenger side pipe.

The only way you are going to get measurable results with an exhaust system is to go with one that has been designed and flow tested to account for things such as gas flows, pressure waves, angular resistance etc. Getting it right at a muffler shop or on your back piecing together pipe is pure luck. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who has done a system for the TBI cars.

Your better off just replacing the stock system with a good mandrel bent system and a good sounding muffler. Probably won't pick up any more power, but it will sound like you have.

Bill

thanks bill,
lots of fun. lol
i thought this would have been easy guess i was making it confusing on myself (have a tendancy of confusing and arguing with myself). so ill take your advice ill find a good muffler shop (not monroe) and get a 2 1/2 inch mandrel bent all the way back. im going to get a new cat while im at it i would hate to get the new system and find out at inspection i need a new cat.

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Being one of the few people on this forum that actually have side pipes, I have some relative experience with the problems associated with the situation.

The real problem lies at the point where you need to take the exhaust pipe from beneath the car, under the perimeter chassis to the side of the car. the problem is clearance. there will only be a few inches available.

Originally I had my cats, next after the headers, angled down and back. I've Scrapped into just about every speed bump in town, ground away on many entrances to parking lots and aprons of driveway including my own. It's worse with two people in the car. I was burning out lots of Header gaskets as the system would get whacked a lot and pull on the header/block point, particularly cyls 7 & 8.

I finally got rid of the Cats. (actually a friendly guy got rid of it after hours, no receipts, cash only) and put in a short flex pipe to let the system have some give in it. It shortened the pipe and gave a better angle for under the chassis. I also added a long threaded rod down from the floor and added a tab on each pipe. It's now kind of a jacking screw to lift the pipe up.

When I burn out these pipes, I will likely change over to simply dumping out just in front of the rear tires instead.

These are the pipes
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Here's the headers I used from Summit. This was for the A.I R. pump delete option.
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flex sections
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The delete sticker is at:
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go to the search bar and type in airpump delete

For the cats, I got them online. I searched for the shortest physical size I could find.


I will also point out I love the deep throated roar but the neighbors are quite as pleased as I am, especially the one with their bedroom window next to my driveway.

The problem with headers and a Y pipe is, that the pipe ends up going under the space between the bell housing and the transmission pan. You still need 2 cats, and your computer is not designed to read 2 O2 sensors. You could run one O2 sensor, but you would have to hope the other bank is performing correctly.

What were we talking about again?

As restrictive as a full-length exhaust system is, it's hard for me to believe that any major improvement (that is still full-length) could very well make you LOSE power.
But... this is what I am reading, not only here, but on other forums. I guess it has to be true.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

The problem with headers and a Y pipe is, that the pipe ends up going under the space between the bell housing and the transmission pan. You still need 2 cats, and your computer is not designed to read 2 O2 sensors. You could run one O2 sensor, but you would have to hope the other bank is performing correctly.

Where is the factory o2 on a tbi car??

I don't remember in full Nick, but If I recall it was only on one side before the "y" pipe.

Personally I have only one O2 sniffer in place now. on one side of the engine. Well, technically Two , an after market wide band for my guage and a stock narrow, but both on on collector.

It is on the driver's side exhaust manifold just before the flange.

jimbeau wrote:

As restrictive as a full-length exhaust system is, it's hard for me to believe that any major improvement (that is still full-length) could very well make you LOSE power.
But... this is what I am reading, not only here, but on other forums. I guess it has to be true.

All exhaust systems are a trade-off. You can have top end power, or low end power. The resonance and flow need a balance for your driving habits.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

It is on the driver's side exhaust manifold just before the flange.

Fred Kiehl wrote:

You could run one O2 sensor, but you would have to hope the other bank is performing correctly.

Yess exactly what i was leading you all to,.

TBI engines,. gotta love 'em,.

Her,s what i,ve learend about them over the years,. you add headers,. it runs too lean,. you add a spring to the regulator,. it then runs too rich,. you go get a chip burned , it pings,.
on,. and on,. and on,..hit and miss all the way tillfrustration peaks and folks move on to newer and better technology,.
Poor technology for adding power to,. unless you have your own tuning capabilities (data logger, chip burner etc,.) don't even think about adding the hotter cam,.
They work fine just like any other motor in good tuned state,. but leave them be,.
I tried to modify our 91 350 TBI conversion van,. total waste of effort,.
I know there are guys out there that have successfully modded these motors,. but read just how long and how many stabs in the dark it took them to get there,.
LS 5.3 for the best performance upgrade,.
JMHOAU

Nick

Yup, burning new chips is in the future when we start to make changes.

lakeffect wrote:

Yup, burning new chips is in the future when we start to make changes.

Um,, er,.. you sure?

wow lots of advice thanks everyone,

but am i totaly missing something here??
where did the sheep come in????????????
i did hear from some where that it is illegal for a unmarried man to own sheep in north carolina.

The sheep came in on the first page, right after the koala bear. Why they came in is shrouded in the mystery of modern pyschotherapy.

"I did hear from some where that it is illegal for a unmarried man to own sheep in North Carolina."

Luckily, there are still plenty of places that will rent them by the hour.

rotflmao

im not sure if it was shamoo or not but the reason i originally wanted sidepipes was a video i saw on youtube if memory is right the wagons were leaving wagonfest ny 09 i think.
i bought my wagon last june and was surfing the net then and saw the sidepipes on a black one looked killer.

At about the 1:04 mark on this video..

Looked killer because it's on the Killer Whagon, the prince of darkness himself... Shammoo

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lakeffect wrote:

At about the 1:04 mark on this video..

Looked killer because it's on the Killer Whagon, the prince of darkness himself... Shammoo

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HIMSELF???? so like ,. um. you have a guy car>>????

mine are both tempramental bitches,.

Although I admit, that most times anything that loud commonly is attributed to a women, usually one that I just pissed off, and is equally wide, blocking my way down the isle at Walmart.

Shammoo has lots of balls, and low end grunt, so maybe it's more of a transvestite?
Shammoo's tranny was heavily modifed a few years back.

yup thats the 1.
guy, girl, tranny it dosnt matter it's still awsome.
i figured it out its a girl on steroids.

lakeffect wrote:

The delete sticker is at:
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go to the search bar and type in airpump delete

I sell air pump delete stickers for $4 each delivered. That's about a third of the price charged by NAISSO. I'm just doing it to help out the community.

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