Dissapointed in Dallas. Yesterday somewhat sucked.... I'm wagonless today.

Ok gang, here is the longwinded follow up to selling my really pretty Olds Custom Cruiser in order to buy another LT1 Roady I'd found online up near Dallas.   This is the follow-up to these threads: https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t8912p20-my-new-roady-wood-is-good#94814  and https://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t8911-my-custom-cruiser-found-a-great-new-home
 
So yesterday I took off work for the afternoon, and dropped off my '92 OCC to it's new owner.    He has some gorgeous cars, including a MINT 1965 Vista Cruiser. He's a really nice guy.  I got to see his other OCC's as well, and we shook hands and agreed to stay in touch.
 
It was really pretty sad to drive away without my gorgeous OCC, and had butterflies in my stomach about getting the new Roady wagon, but the deal was done, and Dad, Lily, Eddie and I left Austin in the Denali around 3pm to head north to Dallas and then east to Greenville to get my new Roady.
 
The drive up was uneventful.   Stopped at the Czech Stop Bakery in West for some good junk food, cookies and whoopie pies, ha, and a bathroom break, and got to Dallas around 6pm.   Took Loop 20 around the south and east side of Big D and managed to skirt most of the rush hour traffic, and then jumped on I-30 east in Mesquite, following it across Lake Ray Hubbard, which was beautiful with boats and jet-skis zooming all over it, and then crossed Rockwall and drove another 30-miles to Greenville.   Got there about 6:45.
 
We had no issues finding the sellers home, it was right off the highway in a nice area.   We were looking for the street to turn on, and suddenly I spotted a big white whale with wood and hooked a left, and there it was.
 
I was tickled at first.   Driving up to the car it looked fantastic sitting there in the sellers driveway.   I could not help giggling a bit, as other than the wheels, it looked just like my last Roady.  
 
We parked and got out of the Denali, and walked over the car.   I saw the scuff on the rear bumper the seller mentioned, not bad, and as I got close I saw how nice the wood was.   Even the trim around the wood was much better than the trim on my '96 when I bought it.   The car needs cleaning and detailing, but looks good.
 
The seller comes out of the house...introductions all around.   He's in his 60's and seems to be a really nice guy.   I like him at once, and he and Dad start taking cars right off.  He tells us to come around to the back of the house, and he has a 57 Ford Custom 500 Coupe and a '63 Chevy Biscayne Coupe in his garage!   Wow!   Both have Hot Rod Power Tour decals on them.  He tells me he's done the Power Tour a number of times, and shows us the cars.   The Ford was his Dad's and is VERY basic...no ps, no pb, and it's a straight 6 with a 3-on-the-tree, and 38K original miles...pretty wild.   The Biscayne has a built 350 in it, mags, and is painted orange and flat black.   It's a hot rod.   This is clearly a "car guy".
 
Lily is looking at flowers in the back yard, and Eddie has walked back up the driveway and already has one of the back doors on the Roady open.   The seller hands me the keys and tells me to check it all out...so I do.   There are two keyless-entry fobs, and I walk over and try them both, and the locks spring to life and rear hatch glass pops.   Nice!
 
I looked under the rear end of the car at a clean dry Texas undercarriage.   No hitch, no rust on the gas tank straps.   Nice and clean, and I spotted some fairly new Monroe shocks...no air shocks, just regular gas shocks, and still clean with tags on them.
 
The exhaust mod is cheesy.   They cut the stock pipes just behind the rear axle and clamped on pooly-bent metal pipes exiting straight out right behind the back wheels.  No tips, just bare metal, pointing straight out to the sides.  Ugly.  That will have to be changed for sure.   The seller sees me looking at this and tells me he still has the resonators if I want them, and he also says one of the metal exhaust heat shields rattles back there now.   He'd forgotten to mention that on the phone.
 
I look under the front of the car, and am please to see no leaks...and again, no rust.   Newer shocks up here too.   Oil pan is dry.  So far, so good.
 
I walked around the car, assesing it.    No dents at all, I mean none, car is SOLID as a rock.  There is a scuff on the passenger-side door mirror, but not through the paint...think it would buff out, and a few small spots on the wood I can hide easily.    The paint could use a wax but looked totally original and much better than the paint had looked on my '96 when I bought it, with the exception of quite a few rock pecks in the hood above the grill and headlights.    I know this was an older person's car, and older folks sometimes follow too close, and who knows, they might have lived on a dirt road...    I can get the hood re-shot cheap, and the rest will wax up like new.   Paint or polish the trim around the wood and this sucker would be a real looker.    The seller had re-taped all the black trim on the lower body chrome, and other than one piece that is scuffed, it looked good too, none missing or sagging.  
 
The wire wheels showed no curb rash/damage (still hate them though), but the white wall tires are shot.   Not smooth, but very thin tread.  No loss, I want Impala wheels...and the tires will get us back to Austin.
 
The front windows were down, and I looked inside.    The black trim around the window switches was worn...typical...and the upper woodgrain strip on the driver's door panel is very loose, but other than that, it looks pretty good.   I open the door, and am struck by the fact that it is both clean and dirty inside.   Yes I know I'm a picky guy, and there is no garbage or general clutter in the car at all, but the interior is dusty, the steering wheel, shifter, and such are flat not clean, they have a film of scum on them, and the leather on the seats is pretty darn dry.   It needs a full interior detail.  This I CAN do.
 
I take a breath and look beyond the need for a good cleaning, and really LOOK at the interior.    The leather is dry in certain areas on the fronts seats, but they are not torn anywhere and hardly worn.   The lack of window tint has dried the outer sides and the pads on the front a bit...typical for Texas, but I've seen MUCH worse.   My '96 Roady had a bit of this..the leather is not as soft or smooth as it should be where the sun has been on it, BUT again, no rips, good color, the seatbacks are fine, and with some leather treatment it'll be ok.  
 
I open the door and sit down, and immediatly smile...those curved and padded leather Roady seats are SO MUCH more comfy than the flat leather ones in the OCC were.   It's just a better seat design, especially for a big fat guy like me.   I feel right at home.   Dash shows 116K miles, just like the seller said.
 
I'm struck by the chome lines on the dash and chrome Roadmaster script above the glove box, they are nearly perfect, as is the chrome that goes around the dash vents.   All of this chrome was somewhat worn on my '96 Roady...I think the previous owner detailed that '96's dash with Windex.  I'd repainted a lot of it with a silver paint-pen..no need to do that here.  This chrome in this car, while dusty, glows in comparison to my last one.    The carpet has a worn spot where you rest your left foot in the driver's floorwell hump, just like my last Roady had, but other than that is not stained anywhere and looks very VERY good, and all four of the stock floor mats, including the front ones with snaps, are there, and clean...well not as clean as after I would detail them, but for a daily driven car, well above average, and these are so hard to find at all now.
 
I suddenly realize that under the light coat of scrunge, the steering wheels is ALL red.  No black is showing through on the non-leather wheel parts, and the leather itself is very nice.   The white cruise and wiper markings on the turn signal are all still there, not worn off, just a little dirty..that says a lot, and lastly, the driver's side door panel is NOT cracked at all, it's flat PERFECT around the arm rest area, as is the '96-style front center seat armrest...this is the one with the single large lid over the storage box.   The leather on it is like new and the fold-out cupholder is inside...works fine, looks great.  All the padded armrests on the doors are perfect, no warps.   NICE!
 
I look up, the headliner is clean, not sagging anywhere, and I'm glad to see the roof grab handles....missed those on my OCC, and there is even a grab handle on the driver's side, which my '96 did not have.   The Vista shades are open, and I pull them out and snap them in place.   No issues there.   Owners manual is in the glove box.   Glove box, coin holder and ashtrays are clean.  None-smoking car.  That's nice.   Has the big-face radio, but no CD.   Again I'm struck by how nice the chrome on the dash is, and the dash pad itself, while also somewhat dry, is still dark red, and not warped or cracked at all.   Will look like new when detailed.   So far, so good.
 
I get out and open the back door on the driver's side.   The stock Roady wagons center seat is as-always, somewhat flat, but the leather itself is fine, as are the carpet and door panels back here.   I sit down and am struck by how HARD the middle seat is...I really do not think this seat has ever been used...the padding is FIRM...my kids will soften it up I bet.   The pockets on the backs of the front seats are still nice and tight.   All good here.  
 
I get out and walk to the back, open the gate glass and the door.   The tailgate works fine, opens sideways and down, and there are NO scratches on the platics back there, and the carpet is flawless.    I open the storage box on the side, and it's empty and clean.   I look at the spare tire well and there is a full-sized spare with nubbies still on the tire tread...never used.
 
I pop open the floor well, and there is factory plastic still over the carpet back here.  Wow.   I pop the seat up..I'd thought the seller said the rear seat had plastic on it, but it's the carpet in the well that is still covered, but the rear seat is like brand new.   The seller yells over that the previous elderly owner did not even know the car had a 3rd row seat, and it had never been up until he bought it, ever.   Wow again.
 
I do find an issue back here though...the lock rod on the tailgate is bent in a little, the chrome knob is leaning in.   I hit the power lock on the key fob, and the lock does not move....something broken in there or the actuator is dead.   I use the key on the gate, and can lock and unlock with the key, but the power lock inside the gate does not work.   Noted.
 
I walk back around the car and pop the hood.   What I see...well...it's a little concerning.   The underhood is filthy.  No rust, but really really dirty.   The Home Plate and smaller intake baffles are gone, and in their place is a hocky puck in the curved intake hole, white PVC pipes leading to a homeade airbox made of white and pink foam (yucko!)...topped with a dirty Spectre cone air filter.   It looks really CHEESY.   The seller sees me looking and tells me the intake mod really "woke the engine up".   Ok then.   All the mounts for the upper baffle are still there, and the seller says he has both baffles and the stock air filter box if I want them.   I tell him I do.
 
There IS a brand new shiny water pump bolted to the filthy engine.  I look through the dirt on the engine, and do not see any oil leaks anywhere.   That's good..it's just really dirty.   The battery is from 2010.   Coolant bottle is full.   I pull the dipsticks and the oil is dark but not black (I later notice an window Quik-Lube oil change sticker..still have 1000 miles left until due again), and the trans fluid is bright red.   The seller reminds me the transmission had less than 100 miles on it since the rebuild.
 
I reach inside and turn the key and the LT1 fires right up.  No smoke, no knocks, actually sounds great without the resonators, nice rumble.   The a/c compressor kicks on and so do both electric fans.   Ok then.
 
Seller tells me to go drive it.   Lily and Eddie run over and start fighting, both want to ride up front.   Lily wins, and Eddie gets in the back seat.   Dad stays with the seller and I back out...his driveway is steep...I know know why he modded the exhaust tips now..the rear bumper near scrapes backing out, with tips back there it would be a nightmare just to get in and out.
 
So first off, the Change Oil and Pass-Key idiot lights are on.   I drive around the block slowly, and shut the car off, turn the key forward, pump the gas pedal three times, and nope, the Change Oil light is stuck on.   Ok.   Also, the gear shift indicator on the dash does not work.   I think it must have come off the column...no big deal.  I'd thought he's said the SRS light was on, but it's not for me.   Good deal.
 
My power seat works fine in all directions, and I have Lily try hers, and it works as well.    The power mirrors work.  The stereo sounds great.   Horn honks.   Ditto wipers and delay.    Windshield mirror, vanity mirrors, and rear seat lights all work.  
 
I switch the climate control from Cold to Hot and it all works, but I notice that the a/c does not have much "bite".   It's cooling, but it's either too low or too high on 134...  I can adjust the pressure in it later I think.   Lastly I note that the lights on the radio and climate control readouts are dim...hmmm.   I reach over and flip off the Twilight Sentinal, and the dash lights get bright.   Turn it back on, and the headlights kick on and dash lights dim, even though it's still sunny-bright outside...so my guess is the dash sensor is bad and telling the car it's dark outside???   Hmmmm.   It's so hard to manually pull a headlight switch once you've been spoiled by auto headlights...ha...will have to sort that out.
 
I pull out onto a main road and am struck by how doggy the car feels.  It seems to run fine, but does not move out the way my last LT1 wagon did, and the heat shield on the exhaust is rattling like mad.   You can hear it with the windows up..dang, that'll drive me nuts!   I'm really shocked how hard you have to press the gas to get this wagon to GO...my last LT1 car was really peppy, could the rear end gearing make THAT MUCH of a difference??   After driving the Denali all afternoon this car is a letdown.  I never felt that way about my '96 Roady.   From day-one that car felt fast to me..   Hmmm again.
 
Other than seeming slower than it should be, and the various things noted above, it IS a solid car.  It rides smooth, the steering is tight and straight, and the brakes feel fine.  
 
Eddie says he's burning up in the back seat (weak a/c and no window tint, and it's 103-degrees outside).   He also asks me why the seat is so hard back there...he says the 2nd row on the Olds was a lot more comfy.  I tell him that with use it'll soften up, it's never been sat on.    Lily is in the front seat with her face in front of an a/c vent panting.
 
I pull over under a tree in the shade and get out and look at the car, and debate if I really want it.   I'd offered the seller $100 less than his asking price, which he took, so I'm just over $3K if I buy this car.   It's a really great starting point, in much better cosmetic condition than the '96 was when I bought it.   Everything wrong is small, and most is age-related and simple.   I know I can make it pretty, heck it's not bad as it sits, but I'm disheartened that it feels so much slower than my last car...and frankly, than my OCC did, which is really sad.
 
I drive back to the sellers house.  Eddie tells me he wants to ride home with Dad in the Denali, he's burning up back there..ha.  
 
I decide the positives outweigh the negatives, and decide to buy the car.  I know I can most likely swap in a shorter rear axle from an older wagon eventually, and that should wake this car up performance-wise, and the rest, well none of it really scares me.
 
We do the deal.  I ask if he has any service records for the car, and he says sadly no, it did not come with any.   I ask him about the water pump and the trans that he's just had rebuilt, and he says he has a guy he works with that does all his work on his cars, and has used forever, for anything he can't do himself.   It's always a cash deal, so no receipts...   I have Troung, who is the same way, so I accept this...we're car guys with mechanic friends...it is the way a lot of us are.  
 
We shake hands, and Lily and I get in the Roady with Dad and Eddie following in the Denali.   We get out of town with no issues, and get on I-30 headed back west to Dallas.   You REALLY have to press the gas to make this sucker go...I'm astounded, and it wants to downshift an even slight hills.  Jeez.   I get the car up to 75, which takes a bit of time, and hit the cruise control and settle in (cruise light works...).   The a/c is really weak...we're driving into the sunset and I'm warm.    The radio sounds good, the car runs very cool, gauge only a 1/4 way up, and it rides very smooth.   It's a Buick!
 
The car is doing fine, other than the a/c struggling, and I'm making metal notes of all the things I want to do, costs, and what I want to do first.
 
We get back into Rockwall, which is on the outskirts of Dallas, and the sun is setting over the lake in the distance, pretty.   We've gone about 30-miles.   Dad calls and said he just got a great pic of the Roady with Lake Ray Hubbard ahead of it and Dallas beyond that.   I can't wait to see it.   I ask how the car looks going down the road, and he says it looks fine...no smoke, looks to be going straight too...ha.   Dad likes the car a lot.   We talk about stopping somewhere good for dinner in Dallas.  It's now 8:30pm.
 
I-30 goes directly across the lake, water on both sides of the road and an island in the middle.  Sun is setting, boats are out, really pretty, and other than being warm I'm feeling pretty darn good...I have a Roady again and I'm itching to work CLEANING on the new toy.  
 
When you get to the other side of the lake you are back in Mesquite, and the road starts climbing.   I can feel the car struggling a bit...and it downshifts again, cruise still on.  The car suddenly shudders...say what?   It goes back to Overdrive, and then kicks down into passing gear again, shudders, and then suddenly the engine roars and I feels the power go away.   Transmission just went bye-bye..   Oh CRAP!   The car shows from 70 to 60 then to 50 and 40.......   I got nothing when I press the gas.   Hit the flashers and take an exit.   At around 30 I can go again...car is stuck in either 1st or 2nd gear.  Dangit.  
 
I pull in a gas station and see Dad shaking his head in the Denali pulling in behind me.   I stop, pop the hood, and go tell Dad what going on.   A look under the Roady shows nothing, but the trans, while clean and dry, does not look at all new.   No leaks other than the condensation from the a/c accumualtor, which is sweating like it should, depite not cooling well inside.   I pull the dipstick and the trans fluid is still red and full.   What to do....?
 
I call the seller, and he's beside himself.  He apoligizes profusely, and asks if I can bring the car back.  I tell him I do not think it will make it.   He then tells me his son lives in Rockwall, and hangs up, then calls me back in less than a minute with his son on the line.   His son is on the way to me.   Wow.  
 
His son shows up with a buddy and they ask if the car will make it about 5 miles.  I say possibly, but slowly.   He offers to drive and I get in the passenger seat.   The car still will not shift and now will not go over 25mph.   Nice kid, he said his Dad is just sick over this, and that I need to call him when we get to his house.   He said he personally loves this wagon and nearly bought it from his Dad himself, and he can't believe this happend..  
 
We make it back to the kids house and get the car into his driveway.   I call the seller back.    He says if we want to drive the 30-miles back to Greenville he'll gladly give me my money back.  He tells me how sorry he is again.  He said he just paid $1500 to have the trans rebuilt and he's mad himself, but can't get his mechanic friend on the phone.  He says he's sure the guy will step up and fix it, but again, he'll gladly give me my money back.   He says he's used this guy for years and until now he's always done good work, and he will make it right, but it's up to me regardless.
 
I'm bummed bigtime now.   I tell him I'll call him back and get in the Denali, Dad driving, kiddos in the back.   I give Dad the lowdown.   We talk a few minutes and he says "Michael, I like that car, and I know you like that car, and I think that seller is a good guy...but who knows what was done to that transmission, or what will be done to it when he "fixes it" again, and we're 4-hours from home here.   You've already wasted a day on this, and this'll be $170 in Denali gas alone today, for nothing.   If the car was close to home, and you could take it back to this mechanic if it acted up again, I'd tell you to keep the car.  But being this far away, I think you should just get your money back and find another car".
 
Hmmm.   I'm 40 years old, but I still listen to my elders.  I love my Dad and he makes sense, even if it's not what I want to hear.   I call the seller back and he says "come get your money, we'll take care of the car".   Ok then.    It's nearly 9pm and we leave Rockwall for the 30-mile drive back to Greenville.  Dad is driving, I'm in the front seat of the Denali.   I put my head back on the headrest, and Lily, sitting behind me, reaches around the seat and starts rubbing my shoulders.   I make a mental note take her to Half Price Books later in the week just for doing this without being asked.  She's a good kid...now and then.  Ha!
 
So the seller calls me about 10-mins later while we're on the road.   Says he spoke to his mechanic friend, and the guy is picking up the car in the morning and towing it to his garage.   He tells me that if I will let the mechanic check the car out, we can both get on the phone with him once he's done that.   The mechanic will tell me exactly what he did, and what was done, what's wrong now, and what his is willing to do if the car comes to Austin and has an issue later.    He then tells me to STILL come get my money, and for my problems, if I get the "warm and fuzzies" after speaking to the mechanic and still want this car, he'll take another $500 off the sales price.
 
Whoa.   A really solid 116K mile LT1 Texas Roady for $2650...if I'm willing to take a chance that the guy fixes the trans right this time.  That leaves a lot left over from my sale of the OCC to make this Roady into the car I really want it to be.    I hang up and tell Dad his offer.   Dad smiles, shakes his head, and agrees that it's a lot of car for that little money, if I'm willing to take the chance...
 
To make it even more tempting, we have to go back to Dallas the weekend of the 19-21st for my mother-in-law's birthday...so I will be back in the area regardless....and near some of the best salvage yards in the state for Roady parts....in just over a week....just enough time for his mechanic to hopefully fix the car.....and I'd have a weekend to drive it around Dallas to see if it was really ok...and could take it yarding too for little stuff it needs....
 
We got back to the sellers house around 9:30.  He invited me in his home and told me sit sit down, and again told me how sorrry he was and how bad he felt.  He handed me my money right back.   I told him to call me with his mechanic once they figured it out.   I also told him I'd be back in Dallas on the 19th for the weekend, and he said if I still wanted the car, he would make sure it was ready by then.   He then walked me out, told my Dad and my kids how sorry he was, shook our hands again, and told me he'd call me as soon as he knew something.
 
We left Greenville at 9:45.   Stopped at In-N-Out Burger in Rockwall for dinner...at 10:20pm, and after stopping for gas got back to Austin at 1:30am, and I finally got to sleep around 3am this morning.   Wagonless and exhausted.   Needless to say it sucked getting up for work this morning, and I'm a walking zombie now.
 
So that's today's novel.   What do you think I should do?   What would you do?       
 


 
-Mike

What a day Mike!

My 2 cents: The car has pretty much everything you're looking for and the things that are wrong with it are piddly stuff. I know you'll probably want to deal with the rear end sometime. What bothers me is the transmission.

I don't have a real good feeling for his "mechanic". Few mechanics get these trannies rebuilt correctly. This guy is someone he works with, not a real mechanic. As good as it is, and I know you like it, it wouldn't be worth $2600 to me, after his mechanic goes at it again. You know it won't last.

If you really want it, make him an offer "as is". Pick up a low mileage used tranny and have Trang put it in. I would be in the neighborhood of $1800. Maybe where you really like it, $2000. You know prices better than me, but I would guess your looking at $300 for the tranny and $500 install. Plus expenses to get it and flat bedding it back to Round Rock. I bought a tranny for the Caprice wagon for $140 and $500 to install.

Tom

I spoke to the guy that bought my OCC and he actually offered up his flatbed trailer for me to tow the car home. He REALLY likes my OCC. Ha!

I'm going to see what this mechanic has to say that is looking at the car now. Am still kicking around what to do.

If I do get the car, a rear-end swap is at the top of the to-do list. I hate those 2.56's. Totally strangles the LT1.

-Mike

Holy geezeees,can't believe I read all this, well except the bakery and jet boats nonsense.

I hear Tom,but I say get it,transmission will be fixed,who here can guarantee that anywa ?

The car is going to clean up to your standard,the owner has shown tons of class,and took a hit so that means a lot to me.

The power is what it is,now you know why I sold the Buick,that's how my Cadillac hearses feel too.

Seriously,get it Mike,and keep this one you knucklehead. 

81X11 wrote:

I spoke to the guy that bought my OCC and he actually offered up his flatbed trailer for me to tow the car home.    He REALLY likes my OCC.   Ha!

I'm going to see what this mechanic has to say that is looking at the car now.   Am still kicking around what to do.

If I do get the car, a rear-end swap is at the top of the to-do list.   I hate those 2.56's.   Totally strangles the LT1.

-Mike

Now that is a sad, sad story. Sounds like you can't get your beautiful OCC back, right? "He REALLY likes my OCC. Ha!"

Mike, go for it. We want to follow your mods on this one too. Did you get any pics of that dirty engine?
Dick

seems to me like '95 wagons are cursed  

buy the wagon, and then buy a T56  

Quick thought: sounds like the body is in really good shape - harder to find a good body than a good transmission.  

Something was wrong with that transmission - even with tall gears, once a car gets rolling in 1st gear, especially into the LT1 torque area around 2400-3200rpm, it should still have pep.   Mike, I've made lots of mistakes and learned lots on these transmissions - if you have any specific questions, PM me and I'll try to help.

As far as moving forward, this is easy.  Get a written warranty from the mechanic who did the trans.  It needs to be legally enforceable in small claims court if it comes to that, and put in terms that are fair for both sides.  Something like
1. Warranty is for X years or XXX miles, whichever comes first.
2.  [who] is responsible for transport costs to the repair shop.
3.  Warranty is valid only to Texas Mike.
4.  Shop shall not be liable for damaged caused by fluid loss, coolant contamination, neutral drops, etc.
5. Warranty covers all internal parts.
6. After repairs, the shop shall return the car to Texas Mike within 4 business days of receipt of car.
7. If the shop does not return the car within 4 business days, shop shall pay $40 per day to Texas Mike.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

As far as moving forward, this is easy.  Get a written warranty from the mechanic who did the trans.  It needs to be legally enforceable in small claims court if it comes to that, and put in terms that are fair for both sides.  Something like
1. Warranty is for X years or XXX miles, whichever comes first.
2.  [who] is responsible for transport costs to the repair shop.
3.  Warranty is valid only to Texas Mike.
4.  Shop shall not be liable for damaged caused by fluid loss, coolant contamination, neutral drops, etc.
5.  Warranty covers all internal parts.
6.  After repairs, the shop shall return the car to Texas Mike within 4 business days of receipt of car.
7.  If the shop does not return the car within 4 business days, shop shall pay $40 per day to Texas Mike.

I doubt any of that will happen Joel, The owners "mechanic" is a guy he works with--no records, no receipts, cash only. That didn't sound good to me.

Mike get some sleep and clear your head then think it through you know what's right for you and your family.

Great reading, many of the the thoughts that go thru your mind when assessing an automobile
are quite similar to mine,almost uncanny. My 96 Roady was a real performance disappointment
when I first bought it,however I really didnt have a yardstick on performance when I bought it so I thought that it was par for a big heavy car, Not until I changed the optispark did the car start to show its muscle,even with its 2.56:1 rear gear the thing has real power,I do have a 3.23:1 that I plan to install when ever I get time. the transmissions are a pretty big problem with these things,
I think the guys that are good with them are far a few between.I would try and bargain with the current owner and get a rebuilt one from a very reputable source. good luck ed

Damn dude. That sucks!

I'd say buy the car anyways. It's Texas clean and in great shape. Tranny's fail in them, it's common. Have his guy fix it, and buy the car for $2000. Save for a T56 swap and a 4.10 posi rear.

Go get your OCC back,.
fair enough you sold the white roady woody for financial reasons,.
You had a very nice OCC,.
you let your wife call the shots,.
Now your nice white OCC is somewhere else and you are looking at a clean turd,.
thats been ridden hard and put away wet too many times,.

After reading your Novel,..
Grass is never greener it just looks that way,.through rose colored glasses,.

all kinds of things could be down on that LT1 for weak power,.
Ignition,. fuel pressure,. cats could be choked,.

If the trans was "rebuilt" by the family friend mechanic,.,. it doesn't mean sh!t,.
$75 worth of clutch materials and seals,.doesn't add up to a "rebuild",... a refresh mebbe,.

I,d say the boy has been driving it for the last while,.(ugly cowboy pipes) and the car is pooched,.
but it has a nice steering wheel,.

my opinion and $2.00 will get you a coffee,.

Do what you want,.. you're going to anyway,. regardless of whatever is said by whomever on this forum.

Best of Luck,.

Next time bridge finance,.

Mike:

BUY IT. You could buy another and it could be terrific for 6 months and the tranny go out so the chance is always there regardless of initial appearances/performance. After reading your novelette, I can tell your passion for these wagons, and that one hooked you and you will just always kick yourself if you dont get it.

I look at these things in a different way Mike.  To me, it has all the things that are hard to come by at a low price (if you offer less that is);
good-very nice interior,
trim all there
wood panels all match,
rust free,
dual electric fan setup,
runs somewhat,
paint looks good...

I look for potential and like to see a major mechanical issue like that when buying.  It means you get it CHEAPER.  And those things can be fixed by you and you know it's been done and done right.  

Even if 'his guy' goes through it, you need to factor in a new trans when you buy.  

2.56 gears do suck and I've had them on a wagon in great shape and tuned. I know you like the feel of those 2.93 gears and you expect the same power as your last RMW.

I was kinda concerned when you sold the OCC without driving or seeing the other wagon in person, but I figured you knew the risks and must have really wanted to move on from the OCC.

My 2cents is to offer $1800-$2k for the wagon if you really want it.(plan on a trans, tune up and gear swap at some point) If 'his guy' can get it working again...$2300. A mint interior, snap mats, great steering wheel and non cracked door panels are hard to come by these days. A trans can be rebuilt and an engine tuned up.  (but I'm weird)

Otherwise...the hunt continues!!

 Chris

I agree with Chris.

Especially how anal you are (no offense, buddy!), think of all the time you're saving by NOT hunting endlessly for perfect panels, etc. etc. and the expense of, likely, shipping them from the frigid North.

I agree. there are thousands of transmissions out there, but how may CLEAN wagons?

I already swapped motors, had the tranny rebuild and swapped gears rear end (3.42:1)
That's the easy stuff, because parts are so readily available.

Mike,here's an important clue, GM stopped building our wagons in 1996. You can no longer order one new with the features you like! Find a wagon and MAKE it into what you want it to be dude.

Peace and Love bro, wish you could join us at WF this year,

Dave

That really sucks Mike, at least the seller is standing behind the car. If I were in this situation I would still buy it even with a possibly problematic transmission. When it comes to these cars (especially in the north east) a rust free car outweighs any mechanical problems. Mechanics can be fixed relatively easily, rust can't. If you like the car then go for it.

phantom 309 wrote:

....(ugly cowboy pipes).... and the car is pooched,.
but it has a nice steering wheel.

my opinion and $2.00 will get you a coffee,.

Do what you want,.. you're going to anyway,. regardless of whatever is said by whomever on this forum.

Best of Luck,. Next time bridge finance,.

Nick I'm laughing my ass off. You shoot straight from the heart man.
Coffee at my favorite donut shop is only $1.69. but that's without the Canadian exchange. Too funny man.

Dave

One negotiating strategy is this - the seller will only come down more on price if he thinks he can get some money back from the mechanic who did the trans. So why not simply propose that he works a partial refund with the mechanic and then sells you the car as-is for $2k or some cheaper price, then you go get a Jasper or ATK rebuild or something?

That said, having built transmissions myself, to know that one you built screwed up just drives you up the wall - you WANT to figure it out and fix it just for your own pride.

Just a thought.

Spoke to the seller twice yesterday, and $2600 is his bottom-line price.  He was cool about it, but said he knows once it's fixed that $2600 is a great price for that car.  The car was towed back to Greenville yesterday and the transmission is already out of the car.  
 
The mechanic is going to "fix" whatever is wrong with the trans.   I have not spoken to him personally yet, so don't know if he'll step up to the plate on some kind of further warranty, or what.  
 
Oh and one of my local car forum guys sent me the name of a guy up in Grand Prairie (Dallas Suburb) that rebuilt his transmission and it's worked great.   Spoke to him and he quoted me $575 for a complete rebuild with converter, and $865 total installed if he does all the work.   He gives a 3yr/36K warranty in writing.    That's pretty tempting, but again, this would be a "I know a guy..." job.  Ha!  
 
Lastly, the guy that bought my OCC has a complete '93 Roady wagon rear axle from a tow-pack posi car, 3.23 gearing, that was "gone through", and he wants $350 for it.   I'd order up a set of those Moog variable-rate springs from Rock Auto and some KYB's, and just knock all that out at once at Truong's shop...but then have to find someone here to "tune" the car for speedo and shifting with the 3.23's.   I don't have a local "in" for that job.   Hmm.
 
I do not think the Buick seller hot-rodded or mistreated that car.  He really seems like a stand-up guy who is really sorry for the issue.   In speaking to him, I brought up how dirty the car was under the hood, and he said he was told to never clean under the hood because it could destroy the distributor (ha!).   He said the previous owner did live out in the country, so a lot of that is just Texas dirt roads.    He and his wife have used this car as their main daily driver for the last 20K miles.   They drove it to Illinois and Indiana, and other then the water pump and the issue with the pass-key, it was dead reliable...until the transmission issues happened.
 
He said driving home one day he heard a growling under the car, and that's when he took it to his mechanic first, and was told there was a problem inside the transmission.   He got the car back, and it was quiet and seemed fine, but soon after it started slipping, and he had it towed back to his maechanic, who told him the issue was "something to do with the planetary gears", and that's when he had it rebuilt to the tune of $1500.   He got it back and he said it drove fine, but his wife wanted a new vehicle, so they bought the Ram, and put the wagon on Craigslist.
 
The motor seems to run just fine.  The door panels do not rattle when you close them (the ones on my '96 did, nice change!), and the inside just needs a good cleaning and detailing.   The exterior paint, other than the scuff on the rear bumper and the various pecs on the hood, is pretty much perfect, and the car has zero rust anywhere under it.   In the owner's manual it was sold through Southwest Buick, there in Greenville Texas, so the car has been in that little town since brand new.  
 
For the power issue, to be more specific, the car does not move out very fast from a dead stop, but as soon as it shifted out of first, it takes off just fine, but then seems to strain to reach Texas highway speeds in overdrive....70-80.   When it downshifted to passing gear it had ok power, but just felt like it was straining on the highway in overdrive 4th if you wanted to go faster or go up an incline.  It had to downshift...my '96 tow-pack car never ever felt strained on the road.   That's gearing, right folks?
 
Never a dull moment!
 
-Mike

I agree with mostly everyone on here for the price and condition even rebuilding the transmission this beauty would still be well worth it.

Thank you again for all the comments folks. I'm reading them all and weighing my options. I appreciate your comments.

I JUST spoke to the seller again, and the mechanic is saying the 3rd and 4th clutch pack failed...he thinks. Hahaha. Man. The seller said for what he paid that should have been replaced last time, and now says he wishes he'd had the car towed to Dallas and had AAMCO or someone do the work. That didn't give me a lot of confidence.

He's going to have the mechanic call me on Monday, after he has the transmission fully diagnosed. Told me to "hang loose".

-Mike

81X11 wrote:

I JUST spoke to the seller again, and the mechanic is saying the 3rd and 4th clutch pack failed...he thinks. Hahaha.

I,m no expert,..........

If you correctly described the symptoms,.and the trans is stuck in 1 gear with NO shifts,.

Then that mechanic is wrong in his diagnosis,. when the 3-4 clutch pack burns up,. the fluid will be contaminated with material,.and the trans will still have 1st and 2nd gear, it will just seem like neutral after 2nd,.
i drove the OGRROTMW for a week back and forth to town with it,s 2:56's and just first and second gear,.
if i remember 45 mph was just over 2000 rpm,.

It may have a failed shift solenoid,.
It may have wiring problem between ecm and trans,.
It could be a simple matter of the trans plug not plugged in properly,.

Could be lots of things wrong, although I agree that the SYMPTOM is burned up 3-4 clutches. Hopefully the mechanic figures out the real cause and gets it right the 2nd time around.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

Could be lots of things wrong, although I agree that the SYMPTOM is burned up 3-4 clutches.   Hopefully the mechanic figures out the real cause and gets it right the 2nd time around.

If the 3-4 clutch pack is nfg,. why is the fluid still red? where has all the friction material gone? BURNED friction material stinks, its the smell we all know so well of a 'fried' trans,..

but i,m no expert,..

I guess we'll see. Such fun.

-Mike

"For the power issue, to be more specific, the car does not move out very fast from a dead stop, but as soon as it shifted out of first, it takes off just fine, but then seems to strain to reach Texas highway speeds in overdrive....70-80.   When it downshifted to passing gear it had ok power, but just felt like it was straining on the highway in overdrive 4th if you wanted to go faster or go up an incline.  It had to downshift...my '96 tow-pack car never ever felt strained on the road.   That's gearing, right folks?"

That is how my 96 acted with original 2.56 gears.
Problem solved with gear change to 3.08 without much effect on MPG.

While the seller sounds like a genuinely honest person,his mechanic sounds like a lot of bull with little real knowledge.I would plan on having that tranny gone thru or replaced with a rebuild before I would trust it on a trip with the family.You need to make the seller aware of your lack of confidence in his mechanic and then maybe he will come down on the final price.He owes you that for all your trouble
and the fact you are being a gentleman about the situation and not a complete a**!

Does this mechanic have a reputation you can check on?  Everybody has a bad day now and then, and it would be a shame for his whole reputation to ride on this one instance.

Well I'm now officially wagonless. Seller and mechanic got into it. Car is torn apart now. Seller is going on a 10-day trip starting next Friday, and there is no chance the car will be back together before he leaves now.

He told me he would no longer feel right about selling it to me, even if it does get done when he's back. Said he's going to drive it for a while once it's back together before listing it again, and that he wished me the best.

Ok then.  

I think after work I'm going to go stand in the guy that bought my OCC's driveway and cry...there is nothing worse than seeing a fat man cry..ahaha. Maybe he'll give me my car back.

I'm going to sign off for a while... You all have a good weekend.

-Mike

....awkward silence....

  sorry it didn't work out for you mike

I'll add my condolences.

FWIW, and since I read the whole dang thread, I would have priced a rebuilt transmission installed and subtracted that from the price of a good clean car with a known good tranny to come up with a fair price for that one.

EG: if a replacement tranny is $2k and a good car is $4k, then a fair price is around $2k.

In my case, I paid $2200 for the car, $1200 for paint and body and another $2200 or so for a tranny. Plus some other odds 'n ends, call it $6k for a nice car. Northern car, so it's not as clean underneath as a Texas car, but the AC has less wear and tear on it Probably more than it's worth if I tried to resell it, but worth it to me. And that is really the ultimate test: anything is worth exactly what a buyer and seller agree it's worth on any given day.

I sure hate to hear about all this, but I wouldn't "cry" if I were you. Even if you do like the car overall, there is just so much rationalizing the repairs and changes it will need to have done to be suitable.

I'd get right back to craigslist(use searchtempest, it makes it a lot faster if you use the city by city mode) and start looking. Don't compromise...get exactly what you want and then once you do don't let someone else create another financial sinkhole.

And don't buy something weird in the interim just to make yourself feel better. Laser vision, remember. No distractions, no compromises. Lock yourself in a room and don't come out until you have found a wagon or you are about to pass out from lack of nourishment:tongue: 


It's too bad nobody had the first bit of interest in that white LT1 Roadmaster with 80k on it I posted about that was local here. Well, somebody did post that the front bumper looked slightly crooked, whatever that was supposed to mean.

Good luck and hang in there.

That car looks pretty clean to me. A dirty engine bay and interior are easy to "fix" in your own time and for little money.

This is a moot point now since the car is no longer available (until seller relists again) but when you are into cars that are 17 years old at minimum mechanical issues are going to exist, especially those priced in the $2500-3500 range. I personally would have accepted the seller's $500-off offer based on your description of the rest of the car.

Wipe your tears and keep moving. New ones pop up every day.

Man up mike,..

just like a bus,. there'll be another along sooner or later,.

don't buy a citation,.

Really wish we were closer,would gladly loan you my 95 RMW for as long as you need it.I know I would get it back in much nicer condition.

My 2 cents again, The current owner THREW A BIG RED FLAG ,as far as I am concerned,when he said he should have let Aamco or someone else re-do the transmission. If this guy (CURRENT OWNER) is a real car guy with all kinds of car related experience then I dont think he would
say or believe that Aamco would be a good place to repair that transmission. From everything that I
heard when I was recearching who I would get to rebuild my transmission,all I heard was that
this 4L60E box was a very tough unit to rebuild and the folks that knew how to put them together were far and few between. So the "red" flag word was definately Aamco. Best of luck,if you have your heart set on this one ,its possible that it may be available to you again. ed

I've found that with all the cars I've purchased, the ones where I've "forced" past a red flag, or a bunch of red flags, for it to happen... I've regretted each one. Consider the gas money spent your only real loss" and find the right one. You've now got the free cash for when you find the right one, or it finds you. Just don't spend it!

You'll be in the right longroof soon enough. Maybe Laird will sell you your old one back?

This is tough, but at least the tranny didn't go out on you once you got it home and the seller decided not to care.

You will find the right one - maybe once the transmission is fixed he will give you first shot at it and you won't have any trouble with it.

Reading in between the lines, from what the owner said, the "mechanic" is over his head. Remember, this is a guy he works with. There will be others Mike, keep looking.

Tom

Roadagon wrote:

... Aamco would be a good place to repair that transmission. ...

While I don't endorse any particular shop, it is worth noting that AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated, so the quality of the rebuild depends on the individual location. I know for a fact that at least a few AAMCO transmission rebuilders are top notch and participate with some of the best repair symposiums in the industry. I would not hesitate to have a trans rebuilt at those shops.

The reality of the engine/trans rebuild industry now is that big chains are offering warranties that are very attractive - the Jasper in my wife's minivan had a 3yr/100k warranty that was 100% parts and labor at ANY Chrysler dealership, and had options for rental coverage as well. It's tough for a mom and pop shop to compete with that. So far we have 5 yrs / 50k on it and it's running fine.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

Roadagon wrote:

...  Aamco would be a good place to repair that transmission. ...

While I don't endorse any particular shop, it is worth noting that AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated, so the quality of the rebuild depends on the individual location.  I know for a fact that at least a few AAMCO transmission rebuilders are top notch and participate with some of the best repair symposiums in the industry.   I would not hesitate to have a trans rebuilt at those shops.

The reality of the engine/trans rebuild industry now is that big chains are offering warranties that are very attractive - the Jasper in my wife's minivan had a 3yr/100k warranty that was 100% parts and labor at ANY Chrysler dealership, and had options for rental coverage as well.   It's tough for a mom and pop shop to compete with that.  So far we have 5 yrs / 50k on it and it's running fine.

Sherlock, Sorry I didnt mean to slam Aamco or any one else. My Roadmasters transmission went out about a year ago,so I was
more or less compelled to find a reliable source to build a solid 4L60E box.I was told by a number of folks on this forum and two other forums that the 4L60E has many quirks and that I definately should be careful of who I get to do the rebuild.Most everyone
pointed me in the direction of shops that just do 4L60E boxes or specialize in a small range of GM automatics. From what I heard when these boxes were re built by inexperienced folks they would perform ok for maybe a few hundred to a couple thousand miles and then start slipping or burning up. So knowing that, when "said" current owner(car guy) made mention of, I know I should have had Aamco do the trans I lost confidence in that owners knowledge of his Roadmaster and this specific touchy trans. If the seller would have been presented as a regular ,not very knowledgable car owner, then I wouldn't have flinced when he mentioned Aamco. As far as warrenties go, my feeling is that large highly financed companies can back up their products better just because they have more money behing them not because they have a superior product,in other words their warrenty is a means of instilling confidence to the buyer. ed

toomanytoyz wrote:

I've found that with all the cars I've purchased, the ones where I've "forced" past a red flag, or a bunch of red flags, for it to happen... I've regretted each one. Consider the gas money spent your only real loss" and find the right one. You've now got the free cash for when you find the right one, or it finds you. Just don't spend it!

You'll be in the right longroof soon enough. Maybe Laird will sell you your old one back?

Amen to that! Sorry you are out a wagon Mikey, but there'll be another one.

oh crap....massey sold the CC and its replacement already....I sold Tiki and sold its replacement a month later...that crovo-itis is spreading!

I think there's a cream for that or something.

toomanytoyz wrote:

I think there's a cream for that or something.

 
It's free at the county health clinic

Just tell them you have a bad case of Crovonorrhea,

toomanytoyz wrote:

I think there's a cream for that or something.

waste of time,. it doesn't work,..... non-curable,.

My honest opinion...buy it after the transmission is "fixed" again. But keeping in mind to plan on replacing it soon.

A solid, clean car that is going on 18 years old is almost impossible to find. However, transmissions can and do fail.

Seems like a no brainer to me! ;-)

There is a transmission shop here in town that does rebuilt exchanges for $575 and complete installs for around $1,000. We put a trans in my son's RMS a few years back from them, and it held up just fine.

Good luck, and you're going to kick yourself if you let this go because of the trans!