Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:46 am
Worked on a template for the coil mounts. I now have one that I believe will work. I need some 3/8 inch standoffs (34) to successfully mount the coils to the bracket, and to the valve cover.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:31 pm
I finally got the trans out, and it is going the shop in the morning. It was easier than I expected...for once. The engine and trans are going in as a unit. Had I known that I was going to be taking it to the shop, I would have pulled them together.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:55 pm
The trans is at the shop. There are some parts that were showing excessive wear. I am looking at about $550 to fix it.
Sprocket
Posts : 6140 Join date : 2008-11-04 Location : Palm Beach County
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:27 pm
Fred Kiehl wrote:
There are some parts that were showing excessive wear.
cant imagine how thaat happened
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:30 pm
Sprocket wrote:
Fred Kiehl wrote:
There are some parts that were showing excessive wear.
cant imagine how that happened
Some of it might be that already worn parts that were installed, or the stronger/better ones were not installed as they were supposed to be. There are some shafts that are galled, and seals that are older than the rebuild. There are some bushings that were not addressed (where the shafts are galled), and seals on some parts that would not contain the fluids under pressure. The original build was not the level of quality I would have expected from a reputable builder. The new parts are more than half of the cost. The clutches are fine, but there are improved parts available that cost about the same as the lesser quality ones in the trans. I think they cut some corners in the original build.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:07 pm
I got the trans back yesterday, and was ill in the afternoon from a coffee I got at a local gas station. Today I prepped the TC, and installed it, then attached the trans to the engine. I am now ready to install the new engine into the Starship. It should not be long before the Stardrive is up and running. The TC went in easily and is ready to be bolted to the flex plate.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:55 pm
Big day today. The long block and rebuilt trans are in the car. There are only 1000 more things to do before it runs. Some of the items are a long time coming. The biggie is done though. If you have a 93 Fleetwood, or 91-93 9C1 you may recognize the left FEAD bracket. The right side is from a 90 S10.
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rcktpwrd
Posts : 577 Join date : 2019-03-06 Age : 50 Location : Raleigh, NC
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:04 pm
Looks good back in its home!
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:29 pm
I attempted to install the power steering pump in the 93 Fleetwood/91-93 9C1 left FEAD bracket, and found out that the reservoir is different than the standard B body reservoir. Who would have thought it would be different enough to not fit. My wallet suffers again.
I got the valve covers back from the welder today. Now I must make the brackets for the individual coils.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:25 pm
I got the driveshaft hooked up, and the FEAD bracket with the PS pump installed. The distributor eliminator is short enough that it can be installed after the intake manifold is in place, so that will make the timing easier to work with. I bought an aftermarket trans dipstick and tube that is longer than the original, and flexible, so I can get at it better for filling and checking the fluid level. It seals better than the OEM unit.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:03 am
I chased parts till 11:00, then got the intake manifold installed, and test fit the distributor eliminator. It can be installed and removed with ease. I was out chasing more parts at 4:30. I had some DEI insulating wrap to protect the soft lines, and the aluminum coating fell off, so I called DEI, and they are sending me a replacement piece. I had to take the valve cover back to the welder. He put too much weld material at the bolt hole, and when I removed it, it perforated the weld, so he must re-weld that area to seal it. The other one should be done Tuesday...more chasing parts. It seems like chasing parts is 80% of the build.
I am debating whether I should put rivnuts in the valve cover, or through bolt the coil brackets and use a Nylock, or prevailing torque nut on the inside. I need some sort of seal to keep oil on the inside.
rcktpwrd
Posts : 577 Join date : 2019-03-06 Age : 50 Location : Raleigh, NC
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:34 pm
Parts chasing can be such a pain in the butt! especially when it's a custom build.
It looks like it's coming along decently otherwise.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:33 pm
I got the headers in place today. I did not torque them down yet. I am using the Proform locking header bolts. I put them on the last engine, and never had to re-tighten them after installation. They must be torqued to 28 Lb Ft to activate the locking function. The trans linkage is in, and the TC bolts are torqued. I will be rewiring some of the computer pins for the coil per plug ignition.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:45 pm
I rough cut the mounts for the coils. What a PITA. Too bad I can not afford a waterjet, or laser cutter. I was done for the day after that, plus it was supposed to rain in the afternoon.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue May 03, 2022 9:04 am
Torqued the headers, put some insulation on the soft lines near them, and started to install the injection system. The parts are slowly going back together. I am waiting for a few parts I ordered such as standoffs, plug boot insulators, and high temp wire loom. The main wiring loom is getting rerouted up the left wheelhouse, and over behind the master cylinder.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Wed May 04, 2022 8:14 pm
I didn't get anything done on the engine or front end, but I did get the new tires mounted and balanced on the new rims.
I compensated for the 1/2 inch push out of the drop spindles by getting 18 mm offset rims. Now I can put at least 235s on the front, and the offset load on the steering will be eliminated. The rears are also 1/2 inch closer to the frame (I checked for clearance before I bought them) so I can put the fender skirts back on, and not have to worry about the tires ripping them off.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Fri May 06, 2022 11:06 pm
I finished the ECU mounting tray and need to drill holes in the coil brackets. I still need to make brackets for the trans dipstick, and one to hold the coolant hose where it passes over the serpentine belt.
The exhaust pipes are connected to the headers, and only a couple of things to do under the car before putting the new wheels and tires on it.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Thu May 12, 2022 9:20 pm
I have been fighting with a bunch of trifling issues. Bolts that are too long or short. Incorrect routing of wires that get caught between other parts. Disassembling things to get to now inaccessible bolts. Long wires, short wires, splices that do not crimp, or wires that slip out of the splice while crimping. The valve covers are not done yet. I had to modify them, and the welder made some mistakes I must take them back for a spot weld on each to seal them, and still allow the #1 and 8 intake rocker arms to clear them.
I did get the coolant hose support finished, and the ECU installed.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Thu May 19, 2022 9:04 pm
I painted the coil brackets, and went to the junk yard today. I found two almost new alternators (the stood out in the engine compartments like sore thumbs), so I bought both of them. I went to get some wiring, and check on other parts. I got the wiring, a wiper module, 94 rear view mirror, and a windshield washer manifold. They did not charge me for the wiring, and washer manifold.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat May 21, 2022 7:50 am
After running some errands I got the pinion snubber bolted in. That is one more piece. Maybe I will get the valve covers checked for clearance today. I had to get a couple new connectors because of damaged or wrong ones.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Mon May 23, 2022 8:09 pm
I started tidying up the wiring and got half way across the engine from the passenger's side. I must make a new clamp for the oil dipstick because the old one does not keep it from rotating. It will look a lot cleaner when I am done.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Thu May 26, 2022 9:10 pm
I drilled and fitted the coils to the valve covers, and now I need to make gaskets to keep the through bolts from leaking. I am also going to make sure the bottom of the valve cover flanges are flat by gluing sandpaper to a plate, and sanding them until the surface is even. I needed a tool to turn the oil pump shaft, so I cut up a broken distributor and made one. I could also use it to charge the oil system before starting the engine.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat May 28, 2022 7:57 pm
I got the coils mounted on the valve covers, trans dipstick tube mount, and new oil dipstick mount done today. I need to make sure the valve covers are flat, so I put some 100 grit paper on a aluminum plate. I tried shuffling one back and forth, but did not see much of a change. They do need to be sanded. I may get some wet and dry paper because it seems to last much longer.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sun May 29, 2022 9:38 pm
I needed the jack stands from under the rear of the Starship to put an axle in the White Elephant. I mounted the rear wheels, and it is sitting on them for the first time. I only have two things to do under the car, and I can do them with just the front wheels in the air.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue May 31, 2022 9:00 am
I must get another crimping tool, because the pins on the connector for the coils are extremely small. I think they make them that way because most people do not have the ability to modify things. The wires are so long that I must cut about 2 feet off of them. The wires should not be coiled to take up the extra, because a coil will cause inductive disturbances in the signal. I suspect that Holley expects the computer to be mounted in the passenger compartment, not the engine compartment.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue May 31, 2022 8:08 pm
I finally got the oil dipstick tube installed. I found out that the TC lockup is wired wrong, and I have to sort it out. The rear on the White Elephant is finally full of gear lube. It took about another 16 oz. I must sand the valve cover flanges to make them flat. It seems like an impossible task to get them flat.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:24 pm
Holley did not give me the full story on the ignition system for the Starship. I just found out that I need a crank position sensor, and a cable...another $450 that I did not expect to spend. I need to sell some of my excess inventory to pay for this stuff.
Because of this added expense, I am a bit irritated (pissed off is a more correct description). Had Holley given me all of the information I needed, I would have done a couple of things differently. I would have put a single row timing set on the engine while I was building it, and used the crank position sensor in the timing cover with the sensor ring that came with the engine. I have a double row timing set, and it does not allow enough room for the sensor ring in front of the crank gear. To change the ring I would have to remove the oil pan, harmonic balancer, and timing cover, then put a new timing set on it, and reassemble the cover, oil pan, and harmonic balancer all with the 454 in the car.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:37 pm
I wired the coils today. I was given half-assed instructions again by Holley. I could have saved 4 attempts to install the wiring, and about 4 hours of headaches. I was told to push the white tab until it clicks...that is half the story. I took the whole connector apart, when if I had just removed the top and inserted the pinned wires into the vacant holes (they just push in), then pushed the white tab, I could have inserted them without taking the whole connector apart. It took me 4 attempts to put 27 tiny wires back into the connector. I finally figured out that I could partially insert them in the alignment block and then put the alignment block back in the connector, then push each one into the pin holder until they bottomed out, so I could push the pin lock back in place to hold them. It sounds complicated, because there are no easy instructions for completing the installation. It is done now, so I am over it, but it cost me the whole afternoon figuring out the easy way which took about 20 minutes.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:33 pm
I got the crank sensor, ignition harness, and a crank pulley shim. Of course the sensor connector does not match the Holley ignition harness, so now I must change the connector on the crank sensor. The pulley shim has a small center hole...does anything even remotely fit? Maybe the bolt holes will line up if I am lucky (the last pulley shim did not). I also found that I need to move the right FEAD bracket out 1/16 of an inch to line up the pulleys. Now to find some 1/16 inch washers...
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:10 pm
I figured out how to align everything on the front of the engine, now to make the correct spacer for the right FEAD lower bolt hole.
I must get an adapter for the Moroso crank trigger wheel to fit my harmonic balancer. They make the part for a particular balancer, and others are not exactly the same. I think they will supply me with a spacer to fit.
I am still sanding the valve covers to get them flat. What a PITA.
I have all my wiring figured out, now I must put connectors on the wires to allow them to detach from major harnesses.
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:22 pm
A thought on the valve cover sanding.
On big pieces like exhaust manifold flanges I have always just used a 6" belt sander belt that I cut into a strip so it is quite long. Use spray adhesive to stick it down on a flat plate or like I do on the steel top bench. Use the sanding anti stick wax on the belt for aluminum parts. For a valve cover you will have an nice long stroke and can get good even pressure on the piece fairly easily, I think.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:27 pm
I am using 4 sheets of sandpaper glued to a flat piece of aluminum. I have about .010" to remove from one, and about .006 from the other.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:30 pm
It looks like I am on my own with the shim to get the magnet wheel to register, unless someone other than Moroso makes one. The one they make is for a Mark IV 454, not a Gen V, or VI. The harmonic balancers are different in the way they fit on the crank too.
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:22 pm
The big advantage of the belts over paper are the fabric back of the belt for stability and less tearout of grit and ability to get some very coarse and sharp coatings on them. You can really lean into it to remove material and hold it down flat. I often start with a 36 grit and once it gets dull go to a 60 or so and to 120 for the final. On aluminum the grit will last a very long time as long as it is not annodized aluminum. Plugging is the big issue, and thus the wax need.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:12 pm
It is confirmed that I am on my own with the crank trigger fit. I am headed to a machine shop to get the shim made. I am expecting about $100 bill. Moroso claims it fits the Gen VI engine and it does not. They also told me that it is not designed to have a pulley bolted in front of it. The pulley makes no difference in the way the crank trigger works. I am not a happy camper at this point.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:20 pm
I picked up some 36 grit sandpaper today, because the 50 grit is painstakingly slow in flattening the valve cover mating surface. I spent more than an hour sanding today, and can barely see the difference.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:19 pm
I finally got one of the valve covers flat on the bottom. I am going to get after the other one tomorrow.
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rcktpwrd
Posts : 577 Join date : 2019-03-06 Age : 50 Location : Raleigh, NC
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:37 pm
Man that seems like such a tedious job! hopefully the second one goes quicker...
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:18 pm
The second one is going quicker. It is still a tedious job. I spent about 3 hours on it today, and still need another hour or 2.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:44 pm
I got the centering ring on the harmonic balancer for the crank position sensor today. Now I can go ahead with reinstalling the damper, and other related parts. I am going to adjust the low spot on one of the valve covers.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:07 pm
I got the harmonic balancer installed, and the magnet disk. I also found that my original positioning of the FEAD brackets was correct, and bolted them back in place. The valve cover for one side is still in need of sanding. I tried to adjust the offending area with a hammer, and it did not adjust. I am going to put the front wheels on it and get it off of the jackstands completely.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:50 pm
Set the timing on the crank position sensor. Still sanding one of the valve covers. Trying to adjust the flange did not have any effect. I got more of the wiring done. I set up the relays for the torque converter lockup. I need to figure out where to put them, and mount the bracket. The relay that came with the Holley injection system is not watertight, so I am replacing it with one that is. I think I have more splices in this car than I do wires. It is true, the last 10% of the work takes 90% of the time. All of the stupid little issues do not become apparent until you get almost everything together.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:14 am
More wiring complete, and working my way to the trans relays. Friction tape works best for holding looming together around where wiring exits for assorted relays, connectors and different legs of the wiring.
I had to replace the brake proportioning valve on the White Elephant, and need to bleed the brakes. The fluid looks a little murky as well, so flushing the system is probably in the cards.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:11 pm
I got more of the wiring done, and a short sanding session with the remaining valve cover. There is a massive amount of wire in this car. I must in stall a total of 3 new relays, and replace one. I am using rivnuts to attach the mounts to the wheelhouse.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:27 pm
I have an unhappy rivnut. It keeps turning in the hole instead of collapsing. I will probably get an installer from Harbor Freight tomorrow. More sanding on the 2nd valve cover. I have probably scuffed over the sand paper for at least 3000 passes so far.
The White Elephant got its brakes bled today, along with a flush of the fluid. No more dinging when I apply the brakes.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:24 pm
Today was chasing parts day. I did not get any part on the car, but I have the parts for tomorrow.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:48 pm
I got one more relay wired, and put the core support in place with its body mounts. I must shim it to match, and set the fenders so the door gaps are good, and the hood fits properly. The core support is a big deal. It means the engine is pretty much done. I tried a suggestion for installing a rivnut from someone on ISSF, and it did not pan out. I got a rivnut tool, and installed a rivnut in the offending hole.
Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:57 pm
I put the front wheels on today, and let the car down only to find that the installer forgot to tighten the air valve on one of them. I put a couple of shims under each side of the core support, but can not set the fenders until I get it on both front tires. I almost have the 2nd valve cover sanded. I think I will need another 300 to 500 passes over the sandpaper. I am amazed at how low it is, having not seen it on the ground for over 6 months.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:13 pm
I finally got the 2nd valve cover sanded. I tried installing the bracket I made for the new trans dipstick, and it was too short. I must make another one.
The ignition system requires that I ground the coils to the same cylinder head that they are on, so I made them detachable with connectors on each side. The leads to the coils are different lengths, so it is easy to attach them correctly.
I mounted another relay, but did not get it hooked up yet.
I planned to make some chicken legs on the condo's grill, and ran out of time to work on the car. Chicken legs turned out good.
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Fred Kiehl
Posts : 7283 Join date : 2009-11-13 Age : 76 Location : Largo, FL 33774
Subject: Re: Big block build for the Starship Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:59 pm
I installed one of the valve covers with the coils attached. I also finished some more wiring, and got the last relay wired. I just have the looming to do. I still need to make a new bracket for the trans dipstick tube before I can install the other valve cover. I am thinking about making an additional bracket for the oil dipstick as well. It has the mount near the base, and the top is free to shake with the vibrations of the engine.