Shammoo update

I spoke too soon. My son had more hot restart lean AFR after restart issues tonight.

Damn.

I believe I have tracked down the source of the  lean problem. I have a Walbro 255l/hr pump that is going south. I was troubled by open loop lean issues, no start issues, AFR's pegged at 19-20. I was working with the fuel regulator , trying to get some pressure built, and realized the whirl of the pump was abnormal. no ability to get much pressure beyond 20 lbs.I
 So looks like I'll be in the tank this weekend.

The last post about the wagon was back in September of 2015. The car ahs been off the road since October. due to engine related issues. The rear end of the crank was getting chewed up I did not Know why, but as of today I figured out why.
I had to have the engine rebuilt agai, after having it rebuilt for last year (2015) New Crank, new bearings. Just picked it up two weeks ago. As long as the engine was out,I decided to change the converter to a higher stall (2500rpm) . Although I was expecting the converter to arrive June 30, it never showed up until late on July 5. So I lost the three day weekend that I was going to use for re-installation. So I reworked the hood and front spoiler instead.

After getting the new converter installed and getting the block in, I discovered the problem. The flywheel was on backwards, thereby crushing the crank into the block. So the engine had to be pulled out again, flywheel reversed and reinstalled as of 9:00pm tonight.

MAYBE I'll get it running, but unlikely dependably for Wagonfest. It will need massive tuning when assembled. Entire car needs a repaint, but I'd like to do few body mods first.
It has left me bummed for quite some time.

why 'massive' tuning?

The old tunings were way off. Poor starting, although part of poor starting could have been the jammed crank. I do't want to screw up another engine, so I don't want to assume that what I did prior was in any way correct..

So I got the motor attached, no plugs or starter in it or on it. It cannot be turned over by hand, so it would seem something is still bound up. The converter turned by hand, and the motor turned by hand before attachment. Now it locks up after less than half a turn on the snout by hand, with a 16' breaker bar.

I'm not having fun. It does not look hopeful that I can do anything without taking the block out again.

Is it possible that the flexplate is completely wrong for the engine? Being a 400 based engine I could see it being different than standard SBC.

I have never heard of a crank getting crushed into a block,.
The centre hole should have a lip that faces the trans,. if it is put on backwards, it will not sit flat on the crank flange,.and the convertor bolt mounting 'bumps' they go towards the converter,.

A crank should not be able to move more than the end play, which is dependent on the thrust bearings,.

I,m pretty certain the flex plate would bend, before the crank moved in the block,.

Something sounds terribly "off" is the converter completely seated in to the trans pump?

IS the converter even the right one??


IF i were in your shoes,. and long before now,. I personally would have scrapped the gen1 Tpi nightmare,. and simply bolted in a nice 5.3, 6.0,. or a simple LT! 4l60E swap,.
I,m not sure if you deserve kudo's for tenacity,. or a gentle tap with a ballpeen between the eyes for stubbornly trying to make the nightmare work,.

Please explain what merits you see in this combo with a cable operated transmission?

I think you need to start enjoy driving the car,.not spend 11 months of the year trying to make it work,..

The transmission case is cracked and the pump engagement tabs are gone.
Now you have heard of  crank getting crushed into the block.

If i bought a new engine it would be an LS series, may have have money for it , but not anymore. but I still like the looks of my TPI system.

Nick , I know you mean well, and I thank you for your comments. I would in fact like to enjoy it for once.

Does this mean a new transmission?

With a 5 inch crack at the upper side hole in the case, most likely so. Don't know if it can be welded. Can't say I would  trust it if it was.

edit.. 07/20/2016. three inch crack and it was able to be welded.

Dave,... perhaps it might be better to get some help,.?

the crank is not crushed,. the convertor wasn't installed properly,or is the wrong converter etc,.. and when the motor and trans were bolted 'tightly' together, the big strong crankshaft, broke the transmission,.tightening the bellhousing bolts up trying to pull engine and trans together, is what broke the trans,.

Yes, tightening the bell housing to the Engine is what cracked the case, and took out the pump.

Although you may not have sen it happen before, I can assure you you side of the crank facing the block was destroyed, had almost a 100 thou slop on it, and the gouging of the crank face was clearly visible. All the main bearings were replaced. The old crank (no, not my wife) has been replaced with a new GM 400 crank.

I took the trans case to the repair shop this morning already. The pump was clearly damaged. I will have the newer 13 van pump put in rather than the older style 10 vane. I question if the pump wasn't pumping, what else was damaged? As long as they have it, I'll have all the clutches replaced while it is opened for inspection. Whether the old case can be welded or not is still in question.

Once again, I am in your debt your taking the time, and trying to look out for my best interests.

Dave

lakeffect wrote:

.

Once again, I am in your debt your taking the time, and trying to look out for my best interests.

Dave

Not really dave,. but it might work better for you if we ship the shell to my place, and i put in a drivetrain for you,..? I have a friend who's wagon has rusted away,. it has a 454 drivetrain that runs drives and is tuned etc,. $2000
Maybe i should come for a 3 day weekend, and i'll assemble the 406 it and get it running,.  

I still think the 406 is a liabilty tho,.a money pit that is not good value for money,.and i would sincerly like to see you away from it,.

but,.  do what you want you're gonna anyway,..

Dave that sounds like some incredibly nice offers,I hope you are able to take him up on one of them. Its amazing how enjoying your ride acts as therapy.

Had I known a month ago i would have considered it, but two weeks ago I picked up the engine. I took the tranny into the shop yesterday morning. If they tell me it's toast, it might be worth considering.

Trouble is I do not have a passport or expanded driver's license to allow border crossings. Hadn't planned on going to Canada any time soon.

I' was planning on installing the 406 during this week ( starting tonight0while the tranny is out, roll the car to the shop and have them pop the tranny in place..

It that  a carbureted 454 or injected? 4l80 Tranny?

AS of Thursday night, I put the block in after I got home from work.
Today (nbegan the process of bolting everything back on. Making headway, but still LOTS to do.

Headers and plugs are in, distributor, wires to remotr ignition module hooked back up. PLug wires at the plugs, thought the billet looms instaklled along with the valve covers.

All the erpentine system minus the belt is on. Need to hook up and test the fuel lines before I throw the belt on... easier access to the front of the TPI manifold that way. Upper plenum and Siamesd runners are back on.

Still a lot to go... hanesses, Throttle body, starter, and the coolant system needs to go in.

I started to shroud the Fans this spring, but didn't complete the task... need a few pieces of aluminum to finish the supports and rivet it all together.

Should have the lions share of things done tomorrow (Sunday)

you'll get there

Full coolant system is place now, and leak at the water pump was fixed with better gaskets and better thread sealant goop. Repalced and repositioned the remore coil to make it easier to get to.

Tested for fuel leaks and found on up front at one of the AN fittings. No leaks now and holds pressure.
Got the starter in and insulated the cables coming to it. Re-routed them somewhat to keep them away from the headers.

Will get it towed over to have the Transmission and exhaust hooked up tomorrow (Tuesday) Hopefully will have it running tomorrow night.

It's on the lift, should be done in a few hours.

Aafew issues that came up are being resolved with having too much play between the flywheel and engagement of the pump, because I put the flywheel on backwards last week. The apparent advice I was getting about the flywheel being on backwards to begin with was wrong.

It created even more play to a point of barely any engagement of the pump.
I had it ion correctly to begin with and was told by my son it was on backward, so I turned it around.

So now it is pointed the right directions but will need a few hardened shims to set the correct spacing to get proper pump engagement. This time it's in the hands of professionals, instead of a certain whale herder named Dave.

Still don't know if it will run , but at least I know it will crank over.

Time to get back to shipping for Wagonfest.

WTF it's only money.

lakeffect wrote:

WTF  it's only money.

you're spending your son's inheritance

It's still at the shop, Hard starting. if it starts at all. Can't really get it running long enough to see where the base timing is with the timing gun. When it does get started, it instantly stalls.

They won't believe me that it feels the parking brake is hung up. Something still wrong here.


Watch for the fire sale coming to a forum near you.

Dave

lakeffect wrote:

It's still at the shop, Hard starting. if it starts at all. Can't really get it running long enough to see where the base timing is with the timing gun. When it does get started, it instantly stalls.

They won't believe me that it feels like the parking brake is hung up.

Watch for the fire sale coming to a forum near you.

Dave

Now,now, make the trek with it up north first. Nick will get you rolling

Uh, Andy... if it won't go ten feet without stalling, if it starts at all, how does one get it to Canada? . Unfortunately on my globe, even though it's only a few inches, it's all uphill.

Update 10/04/2016

Hey it's on the road... just in time to take it off the road for winter.
I've been reworking the tuning to get beter starts.

I had previously reported changing out the Adjustable fuel regulator in another thread. Although I thought it was a split in the diaphragm. (luckily Shammoo is not pregnant) It was actually the thread of the regulator body that was stripped out and would not hold the setting.

So I got a new one, but did not want to use the old bolts to hold it down. Took awhile to find out the correct size of the threads as being #6-40x1/2 ' or #6 fine thread. No one locally had some, so I got them on line.

Battled with some hard starting issues. Resolved it by adding timing into the low rpm, high Kpa part of the main spark table  (400-600rpm and 90-100Kpa)

So now that it actually runs, I've done a couple of VE Learning sessions to the fuel table with the EBL P-4 chip set and software that is running the motor from http://www.dynamicefi.com/

Got a few other things going on with chassis electrical wiring , but ... all in due time.

I had shrouded the dual fans to help pull air through the radiator, but the jury is still out as to whether that is actually working.

Been redoing the front body clip over the summer while Shammoo was laid up idle in the driveway.  Front clip is now in primer, and near ready for paint. got afew spots to blend in better, and the grill needs repair.

Gotta love these 23 year old cars. Someday I'll get to drive it DEPENDABLY!

(probably to my  own funeral)

Here's a few primer only, pre-paint pics of what I've been doing to the front end. Some of you have seen the hood scoop before.  from a Mini-Cooper) ' I've extended the lip on the spoiler about an inch and wrapped it around the corners. You'll note that a stock fender does not have a raised lip on it. I thought adding the lip and flowing it into the lower body work gave it a complimentary shape.

lakeffect wrote:

Here's a few primer only, pre-paint pics of what I've been doing to the front end. S

And where are they Dave?

Tom

Tom, you were faster than a speeding Photobucket download.

That's better

Glad to hear its running,and the new body work looks great.

Here you can see where the lower body becomes contoured into the fender flare



And a overview of the project.



Last is a pic from several years ago. other than the grill, pretty much stock.

I like what you are doing with those fender flares!!!

Shammoo is in hibernation for winter. It's in with some fast company. Secured heated facility, and best of all, my son is paying for it. He helps pit crew for these guys at Mid-Ohio,The Glen, Lime Rock etc.

http://www.berg-racing.com/

Shammoo came home today on the back of a flatbed. My son and I went yesterday, to pick it up. When started, it immediately started leaking fuel from about three different places. Top of the tank, at the fuel filter and up front when the lines take a turn upward to the top of the engine.

I'll be happy to hear ideas on upgrading the fuel lines to better high pressure fittings and hoses, I plan to replace from the tank to the manifold. Do it once, do it right.

The tank and all the fuel lines are out and will be replaced from end to end.

lakeffect wrote:

Shammoo came home today on the back of a flatbed. My son and I went yesterday, to pick it up.

When started, it immediately started leaking fuel from about three different places.

Top of the tank, at the fuel filter and up front when the lines take  a turn upward to the top of the engine.

I'll be happy to hear ideas on upgrading the fuel lines to better high pressure fittings and hoses, I plan to replace from the tank to the manifold. Do it once, do it right.

The ethanol in today's fuels will eventually damage anything not designed to handle it.

Plan on using late model hardened components that will stand up to the alcohol.

Duplicate the LT1 setup from the tank to the filter, but use the C5/C6 Corvette fuel filter with the integral regulator.

Allows you to remove the return line from the filter forward to the engine compartment and delete the regulator at the rails.

Plumb the system using the OEM style nylon line. Not as romantic as braided stainless lines, but it does work.

The Dorman tool (or equivalent) is a huge help to install the end connections.

Earl's & Russell make special fittings to adapt the nylon end connections to your fuel rails.

While you are in there, add some extra protection in the area where the line rests in the frame rail (small rocks tend to get up in there and can eventually chafe through it).

If your injectors are more than 10 years old, plan to replace them. 2011-up 5.0 Mustang injectors can be a good choice.

Complete new-takeoff intake manifold assemblies can often be found for about $100.00.

Make sure you properly capture the injectors if the TPI retaining clips do not retain them in the fuel rails.

Last I knew Joel had the flowrates & offsets calculated for several line pressures to make tuning easier.

There's a lot in this short answer, so you've probably got some reading ahead of you.

- J

The system is designed to have a constant flow through the rails so that you do not have an issue with inertia when the injector opens. I would retain the fuel regulator, and return line to keep the system operating as designed. You should be able to get adapters for AN fittings for the lines. The leak at the tank could be caused by the valve at the charcoal canister not opening when pressure in the tank it above the normal valve threshold. I am not privy to the particulars of the tank issue. The others probably are age related, and replacement is your only option.

Thanks for the thoughts boys.

Oh to be a fly on the wall to hear some of the comments off keyboard,..

haha,..

Don't need flies. Already got plenty of stink bugs.

The system has been hacked up over the years. Some hoses had three or four pieces and connections. There will be minimal connections now. Tank to filter to manifold and then back. Three pieces, six connectors. That is it. All -6AN fittings with simple Russell  adapters at the tank. The exception is the purge line, but still one piece front to back.

The injectors only have 8k miles on them, and were tested last summer. I will watch out for pinch and rub areas, likely to throw convoluted tubing over hoses at those points.

Received all the the parts last week from Summit Racing. I used "Russell Performance" fittings

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-611203/overview/

They go from the stock GM fittings on the tank to the braided hose without needing additional fittings.
Some of you may recall, on the business end of the hoses I have a 400 CI SBC block with a highly modded Tuned Port Injection system (TPI)

Summit also had the "Earls" 14 mm and 16 mm adapter fittings to go from the Hose fittings to the Manifold.

I don't like working with Braided hose. It's usually a major PITA. The Russell fittings made it tolerable. I wet tested the system whilel the tank was still on the ground via a spare battery with a simple harness of black and red wires wires that end with molex connector from Radio Shack male harness pins. They easily plug in to the connector coming off the tank. It does not require the key to be on, as you are only energizing the pump, not turning over the motor or using the ignition system. I was just looking for leaks. NO leaks occurred.

I have bben having an issue with the turn signal flashers not functioning , or not functioning properly. Last summer, the original turn signal mechanism in the steering wheel broke, and i Replace it. It malfunctioned from day one, but I had greater issues to deal with ( and still working on)
Bottom line was that it was a defective mechanism, and had to be replaced again. At least the part was under warranty from Advance Auto.
AS I wrap up the repairs, it seems to be working correctly.

One oddity is that I not remember the side marker lamp alternately blinking with the front parking lamp (next to that respective side's headlight) . Can anyone confirm that this also happens on their vehicle, or does both the side marker and turn signal blink together?
Do I still have something crossed?


Dave

They blink alternately.

Thanks Fred.

Thus far this year.

Fuel lines leaking in three places... replaced with braided lines and Connetors by Russell (Summit)
Repladed Headlight switch(Roc-Auto)
Rweplaced Turn signal mechaism twice.. first was defective (Advance auto)
BLew out transmission.. under warranty.. shop never connected Kick Down cable.
Sat 8 weeks at Transmission shop. Didn;t want to fix under warranty.
Got it back, blew out again withinb a few hours. Cavitating
Hauled to didffernt shop , ( on first shops dime)
Second shop immediately discovered that first shop didn't attach filter correctlyin deep pan... it fell out,
Second shop actually a had a very knowledgeable old guy who knew WTF he was doing.
Got it back ZOOM ZOOM
Went to JOhn Crombach;s house (lowrideTbird) for some body work and paint.
Missing on way home... found Cyl #6 plug wire had soehow been pulled loose.
Cleaned wheels
Putting interior back togeteher.
Getting ready for Wagonfest

I'm going to have to pay Photobucket to make this thread meaningful again. At least meaningful to me. The rest of you probably have doubts if it ever was meaningful..

Shammoo has been mis-behaving of late. Leaning out, poor idle, poor starting ,having to use starter fluid all the time, stalling.

The end result was three issuess, dead cell in battery,( only 10.6 volts) exhaust leak on the side where the O2 sensors are, and a badly corrupted Low VE table. Got all three fixed today with pleasant results under the right foot.

Good to hear shes behaving again. Would hate to hear that you put her in time out.

Butt-o-meter is happy.

Smoked headlights suck at night. Several things on the replace and/or repair.
Replacing the Vehicle speed sensor coming off the 4L60 tranny. Not getting a pulse feed to the speedometer or the ECM. It came in today from Rock Auto, but thunderstorms are keeping me inside tonight.

I used our Rock Auto forum discount to save a few bucks.