Wagonfest '10 & '11

I hope this does not stir up the pot already brewing, or step on anyone's toes, but I want to throw my hat in the ring for WF '11, Longroofs on the Lake, or what ever anyone wants to call it. I also wanted to thank Joel for making WF '10 a great time for everyone. Now I have an idea of how much work Fred and Kelly put into doing this every year for the past 5 years(?). So thanks, Fred and Kelly for starting this party called WF. I like the idea of Bewbers event, but my wife has put the final kibosh on that tonight with me going to that, saying "If we are going to travel that far on a vacation, we are going to N. Carolina to see friends we have not seen in a few years." So anyone living in N. Carolina near Raleigh want to host a Wagonfest next year?

I think Waterloo/Geneva are great places to have WF, but it is 35-40 min from me and at least that from Joel's. Fred and Kelly had WF in Waterloo because that is were they lived, it was logistically "easy" for them to host it. I am in no way speaking for Joel, but I would like to host a WF in Canandaigua or Farmington, NY., where I call home. I understand you all have a comfort zone in Waterloo, and I'm not saying that I wouldn't do the fest in Waterloo again next year if everyone really wants it there, but it's not the most practical to host a party 30-40 min. from your home. Our big wagons get small fast when transporting all the food, coolers, beverages, and 30 bags of Ice, And could not have done it without the help from my wife, and my friend Tim Swink (BigBlackBeaSSt). Thanks again Tim.

So, mull it over, tell me what you all think, and what could be done better, have more of (bottled water), less of (soda or pop). For reference Canandaigua is a lot like Geneva, but on a smaller finger lake, a little cleaner, and easier to get around. Canandaigua also has a few hotels, and camp grounds around the lake, a lot of big national chain stores, and a water park (Rose land Water Park). Farmington is basically a transition town between Victor, and Canandaigua. Not much to see and do, but there is a nice hotel, a few motels, a KOA camp ground, and 10 min. to lots of fun family stuff, a little like Waterloo, but without the quaint main street. Farmington/Canandaigua are right off the NY Thruway (Rt.90) at exit #44, 2 exits west of the Geneva exit, and 3 exits west of Waterloo. And if a connection to Fred helps, he used to work at the Canandaigua V.A. Hospital.

Mike Lawrenz (200OZ)

I am with Mike on this. I would enjoy hosting in my neck of the woods (central PA) but not sure I can handle all of the work involved with my schedule.

This is the park he is referring to.............





This would be a very nice setting with indoor and outdoor facilities (in case of rain), A/C, bathrooms, a ball field, tennis courts, small playground and more. It is a very private park with parking for about 50+ cars.

I have every confidence that Mike will throw a first class event. Not to presume anybody cares wtf I think - but I really believe that THIS should be the wagonfest of 2011. It's the closest thing to the waterloo tradition that you're ever going to get and it'll make alot of the people NOT wanting drastic change very happy.

I only offered to throw a fest here because the future THERE was very uncertain and I didn't want there to be a time when anybody wondered if there'd be one at all.

Kudos to you Mike. Thanks for stepping up to keep the tradition going. It's sounds like a great time and I'll make it if I can!

I bet we could pull something together in Florida as well. Perhaps Sprocket and I could get together one year and set up a West Palm fest (not to throw his name out there and rope him into any mess or anything, just that we live fairly close to each other).

Florida's nice, in the winter.

Bewber wrote:

I have every confidence that Mike will throw a first class event. Not to presume anybody cares wtf I think - but I really believe that THIS should be the wagonfest of 2011. It's the closest thing to the waterloo tradition that you're ever going to get and it'll make alot of the people NOT wanting drastic change very happy.

I only offered to throw a fest here because the future THERE was very uncertain and I didn't want there to be a time when anybody wondered if there'd be one at all.

Kudos to you Mike. Thanks for stepping up to keep the tradition going. It's sounds like a great time and I'll make it if I can!

You are a class act John............

I sure hope you can make it..... WF would not be the same without you!!!

The only thing I haven't worked out in my head yet is the Fri. hangout spot.... working on that. Here is a different shot of the park I have in mind.

Indoors: kitchen, bathrooms,2 large rooms, tables and chairs

Outdoors: lots of open grass areas, baseball field, soccer fields, tennis courts/dodge ball courts, basketball courts, small playground, hiking trails, more bathrooms, and a nice porch.

And they have a trash dumpster! we don't have to take our trash with us, and consequently use the charcoal grill they have on site instead of renting a propane grill for $170.00!

The biggest draw back is no water park next door for the kids, but I'll come up with some fun things for the kids to do so they won't be bored.

Well, if it is still up there in wonderful NY....that means we can still stay in Ithaca with my wife's friends. (and it means Mike is my halfway point ) It does feel like home in a way!

I was hoping a location further South would pop up (like VA), but I'm guessing that is not an option.

Always happy to throw an Upstate, SC gathering together (and can also get the same spot back in Louisville, KY for another gathering too)

I do think we should try and shift on some of the planning/responsibilities around each year to keep Joel and the others from burning out. We are not all wired like Fred.

Counting down the days till next year's 'Fest though!

Chris

Stingroo wrote:

I bet we could pull something together in Florida as well. Perhaps Sprocket and I could get together one year and set up a West Palm fest (not to throw his name out there and rope him into any mess or anything, just that we live fairly close to each other).

Florida's nice, in the winter.

if you do a south florida wagonfest......i am so freakin in !!!!!!
wagons on the beach!!!!

here is my vote for the park:
http://www.broward.org/Parks/QuietWatersPark/Pages/Default.aspx

and how is 5 hrs away close?

Although I love Seneca State Park, we will be there for WF11 in Mike's backyard. I usually drive 9 hours but I can deal with 9 hours and 40 minutes. Thanks Mike you've got my vote (providing you're in charge of getting the raffle gifts next year again).

I know this year Joel and yourself did a heck of a job. Next year make it easier on yourselves delegate the responsibilities: someone get the ice, someone the soda, the coolers etc etc.

Tom

I am a control freak (in a quiet, pleasant way) at times when I put my name with things. I just want everything to go well, but my wife straightens me out pretty well. And IF I end up with the pleasure of having a bunch of wagon kooks in my backyard, ice, soda and what not are only 1/4 mile away at Wades Supermarket, easy.

I know there are others that would like to host as well, so I'm not planing anything definite, just throwing ideas around while we wait for others to throw there hat in the ring. I guess it is still almost a year away.

I do think that the next site should be kept near the hosts home. IMO.

Mike

There's been a lot of good suggestions made. Even though I have never been able to make it to Wagonfest, I'm still hoping one day to be able to make that trip to NY. I'm kind of in the same position as Mike, to go that far on vacation my wife would get the vote for somewhere else. BTW Mike, if you do have to come to Raleigh NC let me know - I'm 30 mins outside of Ral. Of course that goes for anyone else.

I like the idea of maybe some get togethers maybe different times of the year. I know everyone couldn't go to all of them, but that would give some of us a chance to get together that can't otherwise make it to WF. These could be diff times of the year since, for example, it would be way to hot here in the summer.

Just my thoughts.

Jon

Well for the past two years, I've gone to the Spring show in Daytona with the Impala guys.
They put on a great event with AWESOME raffle stuff and usually, over 60 b-bodies on the Daytona infield along with a hundreds of other very cool rides.

It's in March while it's still pretty cold up north. This year there were more wagons than in years past (17 or 18)and the guys that show up in the black cars are all welcoming towards the wagons (Pres of SoFasst has the bitching Black SS clone wagon.)

Daytona is fairly centrally located for Florida and southern Georgia too. It's about 3hrs from me, 3hrs from Krzidiamond, Rh96ss and Acme Racer practically live at the track, Glenn is 30 min away, etc etc.

The best part of that is the SoFasst guys do all the planning, etc

Mike, consider you have local help from me in any way that I can. Let me know. It's actually closer for all of us Rochester guys to make helping easier.

In looking at the circular parking area, and proximity of the shelter , I like that it is central rather than being strung out like at Waterloo. It will add to the "cozy" aspect of it. The bathrooms aren't a 1/4 mile away! I wouldn't mind if the stench off Seneca Lake happened to go away. Few of us, maybe some of the kids, went swimming, but other than the scenic aspect of the babes in bikinis, the lake itself isn't a big drawing factor. Noticing the baseball diamond in the background, maybe we can have a Caprice VS Roadmaster softball game. (or woodies vs slabsiders... whatever)

I also like the ideas that are starting to emerge that each event has it's own character or flavor. Having one "Festering" piggybacked onto another larger event is not necessarily a bad thing. Granted it won't be everyone's idea of a great time, but it exposes us to a larger audience which could be a benefit for our facet of the hobby. It just makes that particular event different than the previous or next event that someone has attended. Once again, not a bad thing. No one ever said that each "Festering" has to be a carbon copies of all the others. In the long run it could be better that each is different and unique in that regard. To some degree it can be anticipated that each event's attributes will attract it's own followers for whatever reason that floats their boat.

Bewber, as I mentioned in other threads, thank you for offering to take the initiative for an event next year. As mentioned by me in a different thread, it would seem be most effective if any Wagonfestering type event in any part of the country (by any name) is scheduled so that it is intentionally non-competitive to other regional events in the nature of time. Many would like to have the chance to take in multiple events, rather than have to choose between " same time slot" situations.

If I recall correctly, your proposal for the addition of a "Wagonfest on the Bricks" (my description for it) event would wisely not be on the same weekend as the original Wagonfest. I firmly believe that it would give more people a chance to attend both events that way. We are a small enough group that splitting our "crowd" between two places or events really isn't in anyone's best interest.

Peace to all, Dave

I live in Hobe Sound, a1a, but I'm at college in Jacksonville. Besides, Jax is only 4 hours away (last time, I made it in three... but shhhhhh). I also spent a weekend in West Palm a few weeks ago for a Cadillac forums meet. It was a blast.

I'll also be at the Daytona show this year (Sprocket, I promise. lol) The shirts last year were so awesome. I wish I was able to go to get one.

If anyone wants my two cents, let me know.

Of course we want you input Fred. Or at least I do...

As the father of Wagonfestering, we value your opinion, and many are cautious, as we don't want to be disrespectful of all you've done for us in the past, or to step on what some consider to be your event and the name coined by you.

Ruphraxe wrote:

If anyone wants my two cents, let me know.

Umm...yeeah?

lakeffect wrote:

Of course we want you input Fred. Or at least I do...

As the father of Wagonfestering, we value your opinion, and many are cautious, as we don't want to be disrespectful of you you've done for us in the past, or to step on what some consider to be your event and the name coined by you.

Well said.

We would all like your $.02 Fred.

Of course we want your input Fred!

I don't think any changes to WF or even a new wagon centric event should be discussed UNTIL Fred chimes in. It's only fair, imo.

Fred will be responding tonight after work...... West coast time of course........

Tim

Fred, we wait with bad breath!!!!......oh sorry ...baited breath!!!!

Hey, maybe we will brake the record for most users online while we wait "patiently" for The Fred!

Waiting here. lol

i,m sure there'll be a few phone calls ehind the scenes before we get the carefully worded 2c,.

Nick

The inflationary spiral has brought his $.02 up to $7.8 Trillion, and a six pack of Landshark Lager.

lakeffect wrote:

The inflationary spiral has brought his $.02 up to $7.8 Trillion, and a six pack of Landshark Lager.

Of I new it was so popular I would have brought more Landsharks....


Of course we want to know what Wagonmeister Fred has to say....

The suspense is killing me!

it's only 7PM Fred time, mix up another cocktail....

My thread has turned into a Fred watch!

Just ate dinner, taking kids to playground, then baths and bedtime stories. Will post up in a few hours. Sorry - I didn't know I was keeping so many in suspense!

MANY FESTS: First, I see nothing wrong with more than one WF. Up for discussion, but I can envision a northeast Fest, a southeast Fest, a midwest Fest, west coast and south-central. If spread across different (consecutive?) weekends, those who choose to attend more than one can do so. So Bewber, you specifically have my blessing, though I think I said so before.

NORTHEAST FEST: As for the northeast Fest, I'd like to see it remain the last Saturday of July. The biggest reasons I advocate keeping it where it is have little to do with sentimentality. Finding a hotel tolerant of the parking lot pre-Fest is a challenge to say the least, and the Microtel is a known friend. Canandaigua tends to be more uppity, and would likely call the cops on everyone! Keeping it near something free or cheap for kids (like the Spraypark - $8 for a carful) is another reason. Roseland is $17-22 a head for the day for each kid, and you can't be at the same place as the car show. Keeping it in a relatively rural setting with easy interstate access improves attendance and (though fewer locals might see it) to facilitate a cruise - hard to keep 20-30 cars together in Canandaigua. Also, I'm sure Stu or another friend Dave would let you use a shop as a pre-gathering tech place. The pre-Fest (and post-Fest!) beer Fest, pre-Fest tech stuff, familiar surroundings for the many repeat Festers that come to comfort those who are new, proximity to Mac's Drive-In (cheap eats that y'all forgot about this year) and parking for several hundred cars (in case more than 50 show up and where do the other park-goers park?) and that the park manager knows us (and the Fest) and is less strict and more helpful than most NYS employees, are all the best reasons to see it stay where it is.

NEW FEST CONCERNS: And that might lead to the next concern - if consistency of venue is an element of success, how will new Fest venues go? And I think that the first Fests I've held have had light turnouts that build over time. If expectations are kept realistic (unlike when I was disappointed by my first Fest) then the events are successful.

FORMAT: If I had my druthers, I'd like to see some consistency in the Fests - similar agendas, same logo (thanks Adam!) similar awards, etc. but with clear local influence both by host and geography. Then, we wagon lovers are building a "brand" and a club of sorts that attract others.

SOME DAY: To go to some sort of next level, forming a non-profit and licensing the logo to support the preservation and historical significance of these cars would be a dream. The legitimacy of a GM sanctioned club, non-profit support, and branding of the events has worked well to drive the collector values of other GM cars (not that that is a primary motivation, but it sure doesn't hurt to have the car you love rise in value.)

THE WOOD PANEL: Last paragraph aside (which is stretching it) I'd like to see the original Fest stay put in date and location, and regional Fests rotate hosts. If a panel is needed to determine dates and hosts, let's put one together to a popular (perhaps weighted for longevity of ownership or forum membership?) vote and have the panel decide (we've all seen too many people making decisions go awry, and I'm just as guilty!) In the event that more than one host comes forth (or none, if some cajoling is needed) then the Wood Panel can decide to avoid the discomfort of conflicts that arise. The elected panel of 5 knowledgeable wagon lovers with some sense of what it takes to host/plan such an event, formed to select volunteer hosts (or perhaps host if other panel members agree) and locations based on some set of criteria (appropriate venue, host with available time, availability of local volunteers to help, etc.) Panel invoked ONLY if more than one or no viable host in a region steps forward, or if a host requests the aid of the panel. This isn't about power; it's about peacekeeping and helping make the events enjoyable.

AUXILIARY: The Wood Panel should have a Women's WayBack or Wood Polishing Auxiliary. Okay, not really, but my wife started the joke.

Recap of my thoughts: Keep NE WF at Seneca Lake State Park on last Sat. of July, welcome the formation of other regional Fests, build a panel for assistance and order, build a brand of WagonFest that all non-owners will envy, and have beers with friends.

Peace, love, crunchy Granola and Birkenstocks to you all (have I been out west too long?)

Thank you for your input Fred. I'm all for having regional 'Fests' as well and would love to host one in my area though it's more mid-atlantic than southeast.

If there is sufficient interest I could sure start working on something for 2011. However if someone further south wants to host, I'll defer to them so as not to compete with events.

And as a footnote. Crunchy granola prius drivers have given good sandals a bad name. No offense to granola intended.

We have a logo?

( Does it have granola in it? Should have beer!)

I like the idea of Female Woodie Polishers. Every man needs one...

... for his car..... yeah that's what I meant!



Seriously... Branding and logo's would be a good thing. I didn't know "we" had an official logo. What is it? I like the B-body outline that I've seen in use by the wagon mafia.

Recognition by GM as preservationists would be a great thing.

Frankly, Fred has made several very valid points to the benefit of not moving the original Wagonfest, and being an area resident , I'd have be agree on most if not all of his respective points.


To Fred: If your history of wagonfests, you've make several contacts while you planned for us. Before memory fades, it would be good to PM a few of us with names and numbers for us to use in the future. We don't want EVERYONE in the forum calling places to make a nuisance out of the process, but passing along your info to a select few locals such as Joel (Sherlock), Mike (2000Z) and myself would be good for next year. With no disrespect intended to others that may have interest or helped, based on this years event, I'd anticipate we three would be the core of planners for Wagonfest 2011 in Upstate NY.


Thanks for the input. We appreciate it. Dave Buchholz


LET THE PLANNING FOR 2011 BEGIN

Granola instead of Beer .. what the hell is this world coming to!

lakeffect wrote:

We have a logo?
.......
Seriously... Branding and logo's would be a good thing. I didn't know "we" had an official logo. What is it? I like the B-body outline that I've seen in use by the wagon mafia.
..............

Take a look at the WF shirts. That's the logo he's talking about. We've also used the wagon outline a version of which can be seen on http://www.longroof.info/

Florida-fest? I think so!

But for the love of god, it's got to be in winter. lol

Thanks Boss. You did give your blessing to me personally - which was great, just not publicly - which I think is why there was so much ridiculous drama. Thanks for your input.

I do have some follow up concerns though. FRED, How do you envision the formation of such a "wood panel" without an equal amount of drama? Pardon my speaking on the behalf of everyone - but I think I'm comfortable enough with the personalities of my friends on here that meet your critera to point out that .... while many of us would be proud to participate in such a role for the betterment of our community, none of us is really the type to feel like THEY are the one to deem others "worthy" of being on such a panel. I think an election would make it seem like we take ourselves WAY too seriously.

I trust that when you came up with the idea of the wood panel, you also had an idea of who you had in mind that you'd like to see participate. Since most people on this board aren't comfortable doing ANYTHING without your input and blessing - Do you think it'd be possible to just fast forward to the inevitable ending and have you appoint the people you'd want to serve on that board UNDER you. To me - this is the least dramatic and most efficient way to go about it since we all know that no matter WHAT a Fredless board would unamimously agree on - there would be total mental paralysis amongst "your people" until you formally, officially, and publicly give your blessing to anything the "wood panel" would decide on.

Valid or not, those are a few of my thoughts and concerns.

Thanks again,
John

John, Let's step back for a minute here. I think we all know that forming a formal "Longroof Organization" is a little bit away yet. Anyone involved in ISSCA or even a local club knows how much effort starting and keeping such an organization going requires.

Many (myself included) have held off posting our opinions and ideas out of respect for Fred and the blood sweat and tears he's poured into these events for the last five years. I for one would absolutely LOVE to see a national longroof club start up which could help coordinate events around the country as Fred has suggested. Do we have the momentum for that right now? I'm not sure, but I stand ready to do what I can to help things move forward.

What we can do is start things in motion. For instance, let's use this resource we have (this forum) to talk about these things and setup events where we can get together. We know there are a number of members here and others who have not attended WF because of distance so getting those people involved in local events will generate more interest which can hopefully lead to more active members.

DBeaSSt wrote:

John, Let's step back for a minute here.

I agree with Mike.

John, my advice to you is worry about John's Wagon Show in Michigan and don't try to assert yourself in places well to say it as nicely as I can, that your not wanted. Judging from the postings, there is a lot of negative feelings and it probably would be a good idea to let them simmer down.

WagonFest 2011 (Northeast) is alive and well and in good hands now.


Tom C.

I'm in no way saying anyone is not wanted.

Let's not inflame things here with name calling okay. John has stepped up to start organizing an event regardless what it's called. What we need right now is volunteers who are wanting to organize not accusations.

No more name calling or personal attacks, period. Post deleting begins on the next one. I'm tired of this.

silverfox103 wrote:

not wanted.

Not nice

... ... ... ....

Thank you for sharing your opinion and advice Tom. You can trust that I've filed both accordingly. I hope I'm able to throw my event (that still doesn't have a real name) for many years to come and you have the change of heart to join us - but I know enough not to hold my breath. Either way - I hope to see you at the NY Wagonfest 11!

Guys I was honestly not trying to stir the pot or be a sarcastic ass one bit and I don't see how it was disrespectful to anyone. Seriously. Dudes who've never even met Fred couldn't wait to hear his blessing before it'd be OK for ANYONE to have a wagon event ANYTIME - ANYWHERE - under ANY NAME? Please. I mean, respecting someone is one thing - and I got mad love for Fred and Kelly (mostly Kelly ), but come AWN already. Not only is that encroaching on - we'll go with "silly" - but anybody who's ever met Fred and experienced his enthusiasm for the strengh and growth of our community would know right off that he's not like "that".

We've even seen it when Fred openly GAVE his blessing to use the name wagonfest to Brokecello, who much unlike myself is one of the nicest guys on here - to throw a get together in Ohio. Amazingly enough - even WITH that blessing, Chris caught so much crap about using the name that he changed the name to something else to rid himself of the BS and grade school drama that plagued the positive promotion of the event (and everybody still had a great time even though it wasn't called "you know what").

Fred shared his thoughts about the formation of a panel which is both Fine and Dandy. I really don't see how the idea/suggestion - based on the truths of our history - of Fred being ON the panel that he suggested, or even appointing others for that matter, is anything but common sensical (oh yea, you read that right - I just busted out "sensical", baby ).

There just seems to be too many guys who can't start their car without wearing their faithful WWFD bracelet on - so if there IS going to be a panel at ANY point - and Fred is not involved with the panel or at least the formation of the panel - "WWFD?" will constantly be brought up and the panel will struggle to be the effective voice in this community that he's expressed the need for and would then NOT be what he'd intended or reccomended. Ever. On planet earth or anywhere else.

Anything less will amount to further validation of the quote, "If there's anything that man should learn from history, it's that man never learns anything from history".

I'd love to be wrong, but I've got history on my side.

John

Several folks have PM'd me - I was silent for two reasons:
1. I'm still thinking.
2. I was out on vacation.

My only two cents: If we continue to have this event in upstate NY at the end of July, we ALWAYS seem to be conflicting with the ECIRS race that ends up on the same day. I'm not sure we can even resolve the conflict, but I wanted to throw it out there. It's planned by good folks who live in Rochester so we oughta be able to work at least SOMETHING out!

As soon as I have something else of value to add, I will post it.

sherlock9c1 wrote:

Several folks have PM'd me - I was silent for two reasons:
1. I'm still thinking.
2. I was out on vacation.

My only two cents: If we continue to have this event in upstate NY at the end of July, we ALWAYS seem to be conflicting with the ECIRS race that ends up on the same day. I'm not sure we can even resolve the conflict, but I wanted to throw it out there. It's planned by good folks who live in Rochester so we oughta be able to work at least SOMETHING out!

As soon as I have something else of value to add, I will post it.

Joel where is the drag racing section on this forum?

Seriously,any person who is active on this forum isn't here for ECIRS,and it is obvious that this has become the main source for WF information. Not one pic on the other side. Majority rules.

Hope you had a great vacation,Lorne.

I'm not here for ECIRS, but I did have some pretty good friends at the track that night and would've loved to have seen them. If Mike throws it by his house next year, we'd be close enough to check out both events - since ours is primarily an afternoon deal and the ECIRS racing is an evening event.

Never swore,never insulted one person here ever,yet speak the truth and you call yourself a moderator.

I bit my tongue long enough Mike, dot the I's and cross the T's all the time if you finally are going to.

Anyone can read all the posts both John and I have posted,I don't need to prove it.

hmm well, i was thinking....

maybe instead of doing the cruise to the hotel the long way next year....why don,t we line up and go to Rochester!!! the big complaint i heard with Rochester, was people were gonna lose parking lot time.
now,

john, how about calling your event the "flint b-body bash"?

Woah, it sounds like a great idea Fred. I'd love to spread the awareness of our wagons....and having a couple of regional events is a good idea IMO.

Yeah, I did take some heat for the "OhioValley Wagon Gathering" (and Fred did approve of it before I even announced it)....but we all had a good time and it did not take away from the one in Waterloo at all. Some people are just not able to make the trek to NY, and I was just trying to create that same WagonFest spirit in a more accessible location for some.

I just could not go to NY that year and I knew there were others in the same boat. Luckily I had a good friend (BigOldV8 aka Mike) who shared my passion and helped me put together the event!

I am up for helping in any way possible to keep passion for our wagon alive (whether it be in Waterloo, MI, WA or anywhere)

Chris